Do the norms require 4 Sunday Mass hymns?

[byers]

I live near many parishes and almost all seem to have a set pattern of 4 hymns during each Mass,

Yet at one early morning Mass in one parish there are no hymns or singing. Years ago there were more Sunday Masses with no singing.

I just wonder if the bishops have mandated or required this throughout the church in this
country or if it is just ‘suggested’ or who makes the decision or what the norms might be. Could anyone knowledgeable in this area help me ? Thank you.

 

[MarkThompson]

I live near many parishes and almost all seem to have a set pattern of 4 hymns during each Mass,

Yet at one early morning Mass in one parish there are no hymns or singing. Years ago there were more Sunday Masses with no singing.

I just wonder if the bishops have mandated or required this throughout the church in this
country or if it is just ‘suggested’ or who makes the decision or what the norms might be. Could anyone knowledgeable in this area help me ? Thank you.

Not required, though permitted. This is a holdover from the practice during the days of the old Latin Mass, when it was common, at least in this country, for people to sing hymns in the vernacular at the entrance, Offertory, Communion, and recessional. To read more, you might want to look at the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, especially paragraphs 47-48, 74, and 86-87; and in particular at the U.S. bishops’ document Sing to the Lord (pdf), which does a very thorough job of explaining the norms and options for music in the liturgy.

It you want Masses with less or no singing, you will usually find this earlier in the morning (though of course it depends on the parish).

 

[byers]

Mark,
thank you so much for the information and the links!. I really appreciate that and it will give me some direction. One thing you said kind of threw me as I grew up with the old latin mass and we never sang any vernacular songs or anything at our parish except during a high mass. I didn’t realize other parishes must have done that in those days.

 

[MarkThompson]

Mark,
thank you so much for the information and the links!. I really appreciate that and it will give me some direction. One thing you said kind of threw me as I grew up with the old latin mass and we never sang any vernacular songs or anything at our parish except during a high mass. I didn’t realize other parishes must have done that in those days.

My understanding is that it varied heavily from area to area, from ethnic congregation to ethnic congregation, etc. The Germans, for instance, are traditionally considered great hymn-singers, and the Irish are famously mum at Mass. What you say is interesting, though, since, technically speaking, vernacular hymns were always forbidden at high Mass (except as a recessional, of course) and only allowed at low Mass. At low Mass, by contrast, as you know, it was forbidden to sing the Ordinary and Propers of the Mass, which was why music-hungry congregations would fill up the “dead air” with non-liturgical hymns that operated as a sort of private devotion.

 

[MissRose73]

Most Masses I go to have an opening and closing hymn, also even a Communion hymn. Some places do an instrumental interlude while the altar is being prepared, collection taken up, etc but some do have a hymn. I’ve been to larger parishes where they may even do 2 Communion hymns if there are many to receive especially on holidays like Easter & Xmas.

When I go to EF Masses, it depends on if the Mass is High or Low. High Masses / Missa Cantatas I’ve been to, most of the time there will be a hymn both before and after Mass is finished, and most of the time its in also in Latin but sometimes its in English. Low Masses, I have generally not have had any singing before and after Mass.

 

[liturgyluver]

My understanding is that it varied heavily from area to area, from ethnic congregation to ethnic congregation, etc. The Germans, for instance, are traditionally considered great hymn-singers, and the Irish are famously mum at Mass. What you say is interesting, though, since, technically speaking, vernacular hymns were always forbidden at high Mass (except as a recessional, of course) and only allowed at low Mass. At low Mass, by contrast, as you know, it was forbidden to sing the Ordinary and Propers of the Mass, which was why music-hungry congregations would fill up the “dead air” with non-liturgical hymns that operated as a sort of private devotion.

The position was the same in the UK where hymns were sung at low mass too.
Nowadays 4 hymns seems to be the norm, but sadly barely 10% of the congregation seem to sing.

 

[Jim_Roberts]

I live near many parishes and almost all seem to have a set pattern of 4 hymns during each Mass,

Yet at one early morning Mass in one parish there are no hymns or singing. Years ago there were more Sunday Masses with no singing.

I just wonder if the bishops have mandated or required this throughout the church in this
country or if it is just ‘suggested’ or who makes the decision or what the norms might be. Could anyone knowledgeable in this area help me ? Thank you.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It various on the parish, saying this, one should have an Entrance hymn, a sung responsorial sung, if this is notg sung it shouldl NEVER ne recited, Alleluia;
Presentation song, Holy, Holy. Eucharistic acclmation; C ommunionc sons is optional and a recessional song;

JESUS I TRUST IN YOU

jr

 

[byers]

I didn’t grow up in an ethnic parish so at the usual Sunday low Mass there was no singing. At the one high Mass of the day the choir sang beautiful catholic hymns, usually if can remember, in latin. And of course there was always singing at benediction.

It just seems that even with the new mass there wasn’t as much singing until a few years ago when ‘every’ Sunday mass seemed to have 4 songs and from parish to parish I later found they were often all the same hymns, though i hestitate to call them hymns. I’ll call them songs. So I assumed it must be mandated or something.

It seems excessive especially because most always all the verses are sung and it seems
‘draggy’. sorry for the word choice. Also they liturgical ministers seemed most upset if there was no cantor for some reason. Almost as if it wouldn’t be a proper mass without song.

I find when i can, i much prefer the mass at 7am that has no singing, the only mass among 6 parishes that has none and it is a beautiful mass. There is also almost no handholding and no arms in the air in the orans position. So without the distraction of
the so-called singing and the hand movements and the excesses of the kiss of peace, I am really truly enjoying Sunday mass once again.

But I did wonder how this particular mass didn’t seem to ‘have to’ have the singing. Now i realize it is not required. Thanks be to God.

I am not so much against music. I love the chants and latin hymns. It’s the folksy music I can’t abide much anymore and the excessive amount of it. I feel like I’m at a hootenanny and find it very hard to concentrate and participate in what’s going on on the altar…which is what we are there for. Is it not?

And thanks again for all the (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[JGMendes4049]

…a sung responsorial sung, if this is notg sung it shouldl NEVER ne recited,…

I’m not quite sure what you mean. The Responsorial Psalm is always required, and if not sung it must be recited.

 

[liturgyluver]

I am not so much against music. I love the chants and latin hymns. It’s the folksy music I can’t abide much anymore and the excessive amount of it. I feel like I’m at a hootenanny and find it very hard to concentrate and participate in what’s going on on the altar…which is what we are there for. Is it not?

And thanks again for all the (name removed by moderator)ut.

I think one of the problems with music in the catholic church today is that they threw the baby out with the bathwater. After Vatican II, almost everything was replaced by ghastly folksy stuff, that mainstream protestants laugh at. There are some really beautiful 18th and 19th century traditional hymns by catholic, anglican and methodist hymn writers that can be used to enhance the liturgy if used at the right time in the liturgical year (eg Come Down O Love Divine, Love Divine All Loves excelling, Jesus Lover of my soul, Abide with Me) as well as the latin chants BUT instead we get Shine Jesus Shine or I, the Lord of Sea and Sky continuously!

 

[jkarp]

It various on the parish, saying this, one should have an Entrance hymn, a sung responsorial sung, if this is notg sung it shouldl NEVER ne recited, Alleluia;
Presentation song, Holy, Holy. Eucharistic acclmation; C ommunionc sons is optional and a recessional song;

The Responsorial Pslam may be sung or recited. The Gospel Acclamation (Alleluia) must be sung; if it isn’t sung, it is to be omitted.

 

[Phemie]

The Responsorial Pslam may be sung or recited. The Gospel Acclamation (Alleluia) must be sung; if it isn’t sung, it is to be omitted.

Not exactly. If it’s not sung It may be omitted.

GIRM 63c) the Alleluia or the Verse before the Gospel, if not sung, may be omitted.

 

[DarrenOglesby]

My old pastor use to recite the Alleluia when the choir was not present. But our new pastor has the lector lead us in singing the Alleluia.

We aren’t required to have any hymns, but however most mass’s have 4, some may have 5. There can be a hymn of praise and thanksgiving added after communion.

If it were up to me, I would have an organ playing during the distribution, just mediation of classic hymns. Then have a hymn of praise and thanksgiving after everything is purified.

 

[jkarp]

Not exactly. If it’s not sung It may be omitted.

I really don’t want to get into the minutiae that this is certain to devolve into…but you’re implying that a third option exists, it doesn’t: the Gospel Acclamation may be sung or it may be omitted.

First and foremost, §63 is speaking only about instances in which there is a single reading before the Gospel and second, the General Instruction makes a clear allowance for the recitation of the Responsorial Psalm:

It is preferable for the Responsorial Psalm to be sung, at least as far as the people’s response is concerned. Hence the psalmist, or cantor of the Psalm, sings the Psalm verses at the ambo or another suitable place, while the whole congregation sits and listens, normally taking part by means of the response, except when the Psalm is sung straight through, that is, without a response. However, in order that the people may be able to sing the Psalm response more easily, texts of some responses and Psalms have been chosen for the different times of the year or for the different categories of Saints. These may be used instead of the text corresponding to the reading whenever the Psalm is sung. If the Psalm cannot be sung, then it should be recited in a way that is particularly suited to fostering meditation on the Word of God.

But doesn’t do such for the Gospel Acclamation:

(62) After the reading that immediately precedes the Gospel, the Alleluia or another chant indicated by the rubrics** is sung**, as required by the liturgical season. An acclamation of this kind constitutes a rite or act in itself, by which the assembly of the faithful welcomes and greets the Lord who is about to speak to them in the Gospel and professes their faith by means of the chant.** It is sung** by all while standing and is led by the choir or a cantor, being repeated if this is appropriate. The verse, however, is sung either by the choir or by the cantor.

a. The Alleluia is sung in every season other than Lent. The verses are taken from the Lectionary or the Graduale.
b. During Lent, in place of the Alleluia, the** verse before the Gospel is sung**, as indicated in the Lectionary. It is also permissible** to sing** another psalm or tract, as found in the Graduale.

GIRM §63 then goes on to add that if you have a Mass with only a single reading before the Gospel and you don’t want/can’t sing the Alleluia, you may then omit it. It doesn’t make for an allowance of recitation as with the Responsorial Psalm.

 

[porthos11]

Ideally, there should be NO hymns during Mass. What should be sung are the Propers for the day, namely, the Introit, Offertory, and Communion, as taken from either the Roman Gradual or Simple Gradual. Since the fourth option offered by the GIRM specifies “another suitable chant”, new publications like “Simple English Propers” are quite suited for a beginning choir or schola.

The most logical place for a hymn is during the Recessional, which is technically after the Mass anyway.

 

[Sarabande]

It is my understanding, according to our director of worship for our diocese, that the use of hymns is option four, whereas the first three options are using an antiphon or psalm. His reasoning was that, ideally, the use of antiphons/psalms should be used more since it is the first three options and that the fourth option is overused when (in his opinion) it should not be used as much since it is the last choice and is only mentioned for use in the final option.

From speaking with my colleagues regarding this, they know it is preferred, but trying to get the pastor or the congregation to do it, can be difficult. Some have tried mostly response-style singing with the cantor and, quite honestly, it can become rather pendantic week after week. They tried doing that at my former parish and after a few months, the congregations complained. They wanted to sing hymns (that parish only did traditional hymns with organ for the congregation and with the choir, polyphony, chants, etc. The church didn’t want the choir to just chant the antiphon because they wanted the congregation to sing. So they came up with using traditional hymn melodies set to the proper antiphon text. There is a apparently a book which contains all of that.

That said, most parishes would have have to spend a lot of money making photocopies each week since they only use hymnals

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

I think one of the problems with music in the catholic church today is that they threw the baby out with the bathwater. After Vatican II, almost everything was replaced by ghastly folksy stuff, that mainstream protestants laugh at.!

Unfortunately many mainstream Protestants use the same music. As a general rule of thumb, the more syncopated and solo-oriented the hymn is, the fewer people will sing it. The next time your parish sings “Holy God, We Praise Thy Name,” note that nearly everyone joins in. Why? It has a common-sense, 3/4 meter with no unusual changes in time signature, it has beautiful words that praise God instead of gibbering on in anthropocentric psychobabble, and a dignified melody more suitable for sacred use than, let’s say, recycled 1970’s commercial jingles.

Regarding the “four hymn sandwich,” note that the Church’s priority on music is that the four Major Acclamations (Gospel Acclamation, Sanctus, Eucharistic Acclamation, and Great Amen) take precedence. If anything should be sung at Mass, these have priority over hymns or anything else. Second in importance are the processional and recessional hymn and the Responsorial Psalm. Thirdly are the Minor Acclamations (Agnus Dei, communion hymns), and lastly are the singing of the Our Father and the offertory hymn.

 

[ProVobis]

If it’s not sung It may be omitted.

Only if there is one reading before the Gospel (during the week perhaps?)

From the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani (IGMC), Latin counterpart to the English GIRM,

1. Quando una tantum habetur lectio ante Evangelium:
   a) tempore quo dicendum est Allelúia, haberi potest aut psalmus alleluiaticus,
   aut psalmus et Allelúia cum suo versu;
   b) tempore quo Allelúia non est dicendum, haberi potest aut psalmus et
   versus ante Evangelium aut psalmus tantum;
   c) Allelúia vel versus ante Evangelium, si non cantantur, omitti possunt.

 

[FatHead]

actually, the norms dont envision (as an ideal, at least) any hymns, except after communion and possibly during the recessional.

they envision the proper chants being sung.

 

[FatHead]

Regarding the “four hymn sandwich,” note that the Church’s priority on music is that the four Major Acclamations (Gospel Acclamation, Sanctus, Eucharistic Acclamation, and Great Amen) take precedence. If anything should be sung at Mass, these have priority over hymns or anything else. Second in importance are the processional and recessional hymn and the Responsorial Psalm. Thirdly are the Minor Acclamations (Agnus Dei, communion hymns), and lastly are the singing of the Our Father and the offertory hymn.

just curious: what document are you getting this from? im not saying your wrong, im just wondering.