It’s quite effective and valid.
The concept is about birth control. And NFP is more effective than condoms.
We all commit sin. But it seems that more than 50% of RC’s do not believe the RCC about birth control.
Start a thread…that’s my point. You and Leo are way off subject.
Not the ‘so’s-your-old-man’ argument. Not with me. If a person has to rely on ‘you do it too’ he hasn’t responded to the point.
Yes, and I’m making a distinction between artificial birth control and NFP, which is not artificial birth control.
God did a good job, is that what you’re saying? I agree.And NFP is more effective than condoms.
So? What’s your point? It’s not ‘start a new thread.’ It’s involved in your again pointing out the sins of Catholics. After saying ‘we all sin,’ which is why I asked the first time.We all commit sin. But it seems that more than 50% of RC’s do not believe the RCC about birth control.
Honorius was not speaking ex cathedra in his letter to Sergius. Also, those who have studied the matter more than you or me say he misunderstood what Sergius asked of him.Pope Honorius has already done that…he was declared a heretic. This shows us that the Pope of Rome, (even when the Churches were one), was not infallible in matters of faith and morals when speaking “ex-cathedra”.
Welcome to the Holy Orthodox Church!
Yeah right.
There! You see? We can agree on some things.Yeah right.
But the RCC DOES condone birth control.
God did a great job. I support NFP.
You are the one pointing out the specific sins of your fellow Catholics. I am merely stating that we are all sinners.
There you go again.
Careful with that beam in your eye.
Nor should you.
Yeah right.There! You see? We can agree on some things.
I suspect that the question on artificial birth control will be a problem as reunification talks proceed.Instead of posting this common attack against the Holy Orthodox Church here, perhaps you could start the one-millionth thread about contraception. We can review some issues about some Orthodox Churches allowing condom use for extra-ordinary circumstances as per a spiritual father. And then we could move on to a nice discussion about NFP and how it is more effective in preventing conception than condoms. After that we can discuss percentages of RC’s who practice **all **types of birth control.
So go ahead…start the thread. It’ll be fun!
Uhh, no. It’s formally called the “tu quoque” fallacy. Take a freshman-level logic class.
C’mon, Mickey, is this so unreasonable? The Pope isn’t speaking ex cathedra every time he yawns, for crying out loud. And a private letter to an individual isn’t proclaimed to the whole Church, which is another criterion for infallibility.
What in the world are you talking about? Everybody including the man on the moon knows that the Church condemns artificial contraception.
We are all sinners, but we’re not all heretics, and for one faithful Catholic in good standing with the Church to point out that many people who go to Mass deliberately ignore or reject the Church’s teaching is perfectly fine - there’s no hypocrisy in that.
The Church condones Natural Family Planning. The Church condemns the use of NFP to permanently avoid pregnancy and considers such use sinful.
YOU are being disingenuous. It was YOU who introduced the sins of Catholics to buttress a flawed argument. Check the thread.
Indeed!
He said “condones birth control,” not “condones contraception.” And that’s true, the Catholic Church allows birth control as long as one does not resort to immoral means of birth control, like contraception, sterilization, or abortion.
Exactly.
Patriarch Athenagoras I, for example, wrote a telegram to Pope Paul VI in August 1968 saying “We assure you that we remain close to you, above all in these recent days when you have taken the good step of publishing the encyclical Humanae Vitae. We are in total agreement with you, and wish you all God’s help to continue your mission in the world.”
Cecilianus said it in response to “But the RCC DOES condone birth control.” As bpbasilphx points out, both statements are true: the Catholic Church allows birth control and the Catholic Church prohibits contraception.
That document comes from the Pontifical Council for the Family, not the Pope, and I’m sorry, but that particular sentence is either meaningless or false. An evil intention does not justify a licit means, using NFP for the purpose of birth control is as bad as using birth control itself. NFP is only permitted for grave reasons, not the arbitrary “right” of the family to separate sex from children - the stifling of procreation is the unfortunate and unavoidable result of the need to avoid the dangers of pregnancy, not a “right” that people have. If your intention is just to avoid pregnancy because you don’t want kids, then you’re just using the calendar as birth control.
Contraception and birth control are exact synonyms in most people’s use of the English language; one is just a fancier word for the other. If you’re distinguishing them, you need to tell me the difference in how you’re using the words.
I think in this modern day and age when we hear the word “birth control” we automatically think artificial contraceptives, I think this was the case for Celianus (I know that I did not spell his username properly), nevertheless, it is Mickey who is being disingenuous because he very well knows that the Church does not accept the usage of artificial contraceptives (this is a teaching throughout the Church). This however is not the case for the Orthodox who do not have a uniform teaching throughout all autocephalous Churches. As Leo the Great has pointed out before the 1930’s all Christian denominations believed artificial contraception was morally wrong, now, however, only the Catholic Church has continued to uphold the immorality of contraception uniformly. Furthermore, anyone acquainted with NFP (the billings method in particular) is more effective in preventing conception than condoms are (if one goes by the UN study which has shown that condoms are 90% effective as opposed to NFP/billings method which can be 93% to 98% effective)
Not all Church documents are written by the Pope, nor do they have to be. It reflects authentic Catholic teaching, e.g. in Humanae Vitae, the Catechism, etc.
This objection makes no sense. NFP is a form of birth control (both when it is used to achieve conception and when it is used to postpone conception). The English translation of Humanae Vitae actually called it this: “controlling birth in a way which does not in the least offend the moral principles.” It is not a contraceptive method of birth control (nor does it involve sterilization or abortion), but it is a method of birth control.
If you have read Humanae Vitae, then you should know NFP is not allowed only in grave circumstances. HV says:
Which use of NFP does not do. Conjugal acts are open both to the expression of love and to conception.
All this really tells us is that many English speakers don’t pay much thought to noncontraceptive forms of birth control, though most are practicing one most of the time (i.e. by not having sex).