Do the Orthodox really think this about Catholic devotion to Mary?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Trying2overcome
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

Trying2overcome

Guest
I was on some orthodox forum a couple days ago and I saw that some guy was saying how a sign that the Fatima apparitions are false is that Our lady asked for consecration to her Immaculate Heart. He said that Mary only has two roles 1) to bring Jesus into the world and 2) to always lead souls to Him ( This is what the Catholic church teaches BTW). This isn’t the first time I’ve read an orthodox make comments like this, how some Catholics honor Mary “too much.” Does the orthodox church teach that catholics are too obsessed with Mary? Or is it just opinions of a few ignorant individuals?
 
Trying2overcome said:
I was on some orthodox forum a couple days ago and I saw that some guy was saying how a sign that the Fatima apparitions are false is that Our lady asked for consecration to her Immaculate Heart. He said that Mary only has two roles 1) to bring Jesus into the world and 2) to always lead souls to Him ( This is what the Catholic church teaches BTW). This isn’t the first time I’ve read an orthodox make comments like this, how some Catholics honor Mary “too much.” Does the orthodox church teach that catholics are too obsessed with Mary? Or is it just opinions of a few ignorant individuals?
Click to expand...
The Russian priest I know told me that he found Fatima offensive.
 
Jesus sent His Mother, that He might tarry. He will come to Judge, few are ready.

Peace
 
It is sort of a mixed answer. Some may say yes because they may say veneration of the Theotokos is done in a vacuum without the context of Christ, the liturgy or tradition of the church (like devotionals that have modern day roots). Because of this some may think the veneration is sort of closer to latria/worship because of the lack of a stronger context/foundation.

Others (and I think majority) say Catholic veneration is equal with Orthodox.

And some even say they don’t venerate her enough, considering veneration of the Theotokos has a place within the services of the church (such as the Divine Liturgy and Vespers). 😛

And the biggest majority don’t have an opinion.
And this is just my :twocents:
 
They sound a bit put off by the fact that our Lady rarely appears to them. Like a little kid who says to his brother, “Mom always liked you best!” 😛
 
boomerang said:
They sound a bit put off by the fact that our Lady rarely appears to them. Like a little kid who says to his brother, “Mom always liked you best!” 😛
Click to expand...
Are you kidding me? There have been innumerable appearances of Panagia to Orthodox Christians over the centuries. You haven’t a clue what you are talking about :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
St. Seraphim of Sarov

St. Seraphim (born Prohor Moshnin) was born in 1759 to a merchant family in Kursk. At the age of 10, he became seriously ill. During the course of his illness, he saw the Mother of God in his sleep, who promised to heal him. Several days later there was a religious procession in Kursk with the locally revered miracle-working icon of the Mother of God. Due to bad weather, the procession took an abbreviated route past the house of the Moshnin family. After his mother put Seraphim up to the miracle-working image, he recovered rapidly. While at a young age, he needed to help his parents with their shop, but business had little appeal for him. Young Seraphim loved to read the lives of the saints, to attend church and to withdraw into seclusion for prayer.

At the age of 18, Seraphim firmly decided to become a monk. His mother blessed him with a large copper crucifix, which he wore over his clothing all his life. After this, he entered the Sarov monastery as a novice.

From day one in the monastery, exceptional abstinence from food and slumber were the distinguishing features of his life. He ate once a day, and little. On Wednesdays and Fridays he ate nothing. After asking the blessing of his starets (i.e., a spiritual elder), he began to withdraw often into the forest for prayer and religious contemplation. He became severely ill again soon after, and was forced to spend most of the course of the next three years lying down.

St. Seraphim was once again healed by the Most Holy Virgin Mary, Who appeared to him accompanied by several saints. Pointing to the venerable Seraphim, The Holy Virgin said to the apostle John the Theologian: “He is of our lineage.” Then, by touching his side with Her staff, She healed him.

fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/seraphim_e.htm

Peace
 
Trying2overcome said:
I was on some orthodox forum a couple days ago and I saw that some guy was saying how a sign that the Fatima apparitions are false is that Our lady asked for consecration to her Immaculate Heart. He said that Mary only has two roles 1) to bring Jesus into the world and 2) to always lead souls to Him ( This is what the Catholic church teaches BTW). This isn’t the first time I’ve read an orthodox make comments like this, how some Catholics honor Mary “too much.” Does the orthodox church teach that catholics are too obsessed with Mary? Or is it just opinions of a few ignorant individuals?
Click to expand...
I really can’t stand some of the impudent remarks on this forum which some so-called ‘Christians’ make when discussing Our Lady’s holy motherhood (as Willed by our Creator).
 
They think the title Queen of Heavens and Earth is excessive even though they say that she’s the highest and holiest creature of God.
There are not as many miracles as in the Catholic Church, and in many miracles her icons shed tears. Probably because the Orthodox do not want to listen. They do not have a system for validating the miracles as Catholics do and probably some of them get forgotten.
About Fatima, because the Church did not validate the miracle, opinions vary. Unfortunately some still think in the same terms of bitter opposition to the Catholic Church.
 
Ion said:
They think the title Queen of Heavens and Earth is excessive even though they say that she’s the highest and holiest creature of God.
There are not as many miracles as in the Catholic Church, and in many miracles her icons shed tears. Probably because the Orthodox do not want to listen. They do not have a system for validating the miracles as Catholics do and probably some of them get forgotten.
About Fatima, because the Church did not validate the miracle, opinions vary. Unfortunately some still think in the same terms of bitter opposition to the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
We do recognize her as Queen of Heaven, as is representative in some iconography. We just don’t make mention of this within the church life as much as our Western counterparts because we just have a different emphasis, such as how the West emphasizes the Passion of Christ, while we emphasize more the glorified Christ (see our Pascha hymn how He has trampled death by death).

And I cannot recall who, but there was a bishop within our church who said that Christianity (Orthodoxy) without veneration due to the Theotokos is not true Christianity at all, and is in contradiction to the true faith.

Truly I cannot emphasize enough that the Orthodox/Eastern tradition venerates the Theotokos very very highly, that for someone who is familiar with both Catholic and Eastern views would see that the veneration of the Theotokos on both sides is not an issue at all, but is one of the issues that truly gives common ground to us both.

Furthermore, to the miracles, I would say that Orthodox also have numerous miracles that also equal in number to Catholic miracles. It’s just that most do not get much familiarity on a universal level such that it is venerated as the end all be all type of miracle (such as Lourdes and Fatima). This is only added by the fact that we do not have such a heavily centered form of authority like the Vatican that would make any miracles/apparitions familiar on a universal level. I also assume that since the Orthodox life is very heavily centered on the Divine Liturgy, it would seem the logical result that any miracles (private revelation) bear a lesser significance in the Orthodox life than in the Catholic life.

Even then, neither should we count how many miracles each church has, as all miracles are works of God to bring us closer to the faith, and should not be used as polemical arguments.

So let us not bicker or fight about our respective church’s veneration of the Theotokos, as she is the mother of us all. I do not think she would want to see us bicker on who venerates her more, as from my experience, any authentic Catholic and Orthodox will venerate her equally. 🙂
 
Kmon23 said:
We do recognize her as Queen of Heaven, as is representative in some iconography. We just don’t make mention of this within the church life as much as our Western counterparts because we just have a different emphasis, such as how the West emphasizes the Passion of Christ, while we emphasize more the glorified Christ (see our Pascha hymn how He has trampled death by death).

And I cannot recall who, but there was a bishop within our church who said that Christianity (Orthodoxy) without veneration due to the Theotokos is not true Christianity at all, and is in contradiction to the true faith.

Truly I cannot emphasize enough that the Orthodox/Eastern tradition venerates the Theotokos very very highly, that for someone who is familiar with both Catholic and Eastern views would see that the veneration of the Theotokos on both sides is not an issue at all, but is one of the issues that truly gives common ground to us both.

Furthermore, to the miracles, I would say that Orthodox also have numerous miracles that also equal in number to Catholic miracles. It’s just that most do not get much familiarity on a universal level such that it is venerated as the end all be all type of miracle (such as Lourdes and Fatima). This is only added by the fact that we do not have such a heavily centered form of authority like the Vatican that would make any miracles/apparitions familiar on a universal level. I also assume that since the Orthodox life is very heavily centered on the Divine Liturgy, it would seem the logical result that any miracles (private revelation) bear a lesser significance in the Orthodox life than in the Catholic life.

Even then, neither should we count how many miracles each church has, as all miracles are works of God to bring us closer to the faith, and should not be used as polemical arguments.

So let us not bicker or fight about our respective church’s veneration of the Theotokos, as she is the mother of us all. I do not think she would want to see us bicker on who venerates her more, as from my experience, any authentic Catholic and Orthodox will venerate her equally. 🙂
Click to expand...
👍 Thanks for you comments - they are well written & insightful
 
Kmon23 said:
We do recognize her as Queen of Heaven, as is representative in some iconography.
Click to expand...
Actually, the title we use is “Wider than the Heavens”, which is a reference to God who is infinite and uncontainable, being contained in her womb.
 
boomerang said:
They sound a bit put off by the fact that our Lady rarely appears to them. Like a little kid who says to his brother, “Mom always liked you best!” 😛
Click to expand...
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Our Lady of Zeitun
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top