Do the Orthodox really think this about Catholic devotion to Mary?

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Even the Popes believed the apparition of Fatima was only to help Russia from this persecution threat. The Fatima messages were never intended for Russia to be converted into the Roman Catholic faith. This was a false interpretation by which some Catholic groups had taken. The Popes believed the words “Russia to be converted” only meant for the end of the persecution. However it is to our advantage to know the power of prayer which can help us even if we are unaware of it. The fact was millions of Catholics were praying through the invitation of the Mother of God which did help God to send forth His Graces in abundance. It was the boost He needed to end the persecution.
 
chimo said:
The long list of martyrs are not forgotten. However if God thought this was enough to save Russia from this persecution He would not have sent Mary to Fatima. The necessary prayers of millions of Catholics combining it with the millions of martyrs was the antidote that God needed to end this Communist persecution. Prayers are good either from the martyr or those who are still living. In fact those who pray while living can be considered living martyrs. The point though from all of this was the “blood martyrs” were not enough to help God to change the persecution that was occurring in Russia. Something else was necessary and it was Fatima that had given God the extra necessary Graces to make this change possible.
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Forgive me if I seem incredulous, but I sincerely doubt you are privy to what God’s thought process is in regards to Russia. Personally, I find your thoughts incredibly insulting to the martyrs of Russia.
 
Ion said:
Probably you did not live under the stalinists/Communists.
It’s a shame to assume the martirdom of the faithfully based on the mistakes of the Russian Orthodox Hierarchy. What about the millions who died without communion? Tens of millions without proper religious education?
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You do realize that we accept Orthodox sacraments as valid? We have points of difference, but the Catholic Church does not regard Orthodoxy as having a fundamentally flawed theological framework. We regard the differences, actually, as having less significance than the Orthodox themselves do. Treating Orthodox Christianity dismissively is not in any way representative of Catholic thought concerning Orthodoxy.
 
“I believe in one holy Catholic and apostolic church”
I think this is the public matter addressed by the miracle.
 
chimo said:
The authentic message of Fatima of course was never this conversion into the Catholic Church but an end of the brutal persecutions which Communist ideology was pushing for.
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Where can I see this “authentic” message presented by the Catholic hierarchy?
The sad part of this is some Orthodox (and Catholics) listen too much to these isolated Catholic groups than to what the Popes have said yet the message of Fatima continues on.
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Who are these “isolated Catholic groups” and where are their “non authentic” interpretations? I would like to see some actual evidence that what you claim is true. Do you consider the mainstream Catholic magazine “30 Days (30 Giorni)” as one of those “isolated Catholic groups”?
 
zerocrossing said:
You do realize that we accept Orthodox sacraments as valid? We have points of difference, but the Catholic Church does not regard Orthodoxy as having a fundamentally flawed theological framework. We regard the differences, actually, as having less significance than the Orthodox themselves do. Treating Orthodox Christianity dismissively is not in any way representative of Catholic thought concerning Orthodoxy.
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I was Orthodox until 2012
I did not treat them dismissively, but only to draw their attention that even if the main historical characters are atheists history is not written by them.
Nothing happens out of the will of God.
As you can see in the previous posts, they know they have the wrong attitude toward a miracle done by the Holy Virgin Mary, and thus they feel they should either consider Fatima some sort of fake or either pretend does not exist. In other words, to do exactly what they did 100 years ago…
 
Ion said:
I was Orthodox until 2012
I did not treat them dismissively, but only to draw their attention that even if the main historical characters are atheists history is not written by them.
Nothing happens out of the will of God.
As you can see in the previous posts, they know they have the wrong attitude toward a miracle done by the Holy Virgin Mary, and thus they feel they should either consider Fatima some sort of fake or either pretend does not exist. In other words, to do exactly what they did 100 years ago…
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Now you’re just writing nonsensical statements to stand your ground even when your coreligionists won’t defend you. This argument is pointless & doesn’t endear us to your religion.

The Orthodox problem with Fatima and all the other so-called “apartitions” are always that the Theotokos is holding back the wrath of Christ who is always this close to releasing His wrath upon us. " is presented as attempting to appease an angry God (“if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pope Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father.”

That doesn’t sound like a very merciful God to me. The Earth is still around after two world wars, a cold war, ethnic conflicts, economic collapses, & diseases. Catholocism of either type is a small sect in Russia, where the rate of practicing Christians probably hasn’t gone up or down much & Christianity is becoming more of a Slavic ethnic-identifier than anything else. Portugal also has dismal religious attendance rates and drug use was legalized there. That doesn’t sound like a consecrated country to me. Keep your wrathful God; we’ll keep Christ’s words in the New Testament.

The kind of pettiness you demonstrate, sir, is exactly what made me explore different religions and look into my Mother’s religion and why I want nothing to do with Catholicism. I thought that joining this forum would allow my to lighten up in regards to a faith community of one billion people, but if anything reading the numerous debates here makes me feel as if my wariness is justified. This is not the first time I feel as if leaving the site would be a good idea.
 
Kosta said:
W Christianity is becoming more of a Slavic ethnic-identifier than anything else. Portugal also has dismal religious attendance rates and drug use was legalized there. That doesn’t sound like a consecrated country to me. .
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CAtholic attendance at Mass is going down in Portugal, Ireland, Spain, France, etc.-while in Russia, hundreds of new E. Orthodox Churches are being built as more and more Russians are attending Church.
 
chimo said:
The long list of martyrs are not forgotten. However if God thought this was enough to save Russia from this persecution He would not have sent Mary to Fatima. .
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Fatima is a private revelation and Roman Catholics are not required to believe in Fatima.
 
Tomdstone said:
CAtholic attendance at Mass is going down in Portugal, Ireland, Spain, France, etc.-while in Russia, hundreds of new E. Orthodox Churches are being built as more and more Russians are attending Church.
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The attendance rates are still dismal. There’s still a lot of work to be done. We Orthodox Christians cannot pat ourselves on the back & say “mission accomplished!” just quite yet & declare the Russian Federation “Holy Rus,” especially when abortion & crime rates are so high there and the symbiosis between church and state reaches worrisome levels and state-sanctioned oligarchs run the country just as non state-sanctioned ones did in the days before the current president.

Give it a couple hundred years; then we can maybe consider giving ourselves at least a thumbs’ up.
Tomdstone said:
CAtholic attendance at Mass is going down in Portugal, Ireland, Spain, France, etc.-while in Russia, hundreds of new E. Orthodox Churches are being built as more and more Russians are attending Church.
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Tomdstone said:
Fatima is a private revelation and Roman Catholics are not required to believe in Fatima.
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If they’re not required to believe it, then we certainly aren’t. Who said God sent the Theotokos to Fatima? If it’s not an official miracle, then not even the Catholic Church has.
 
zerocrossing said:
You do realize that we accept Orthodox sacraments as valid? We have points of difference, but the Catholic Church does not regard Orthodoxy as having a fundamentally flawed theological framework. We regard the differences, actually, as having less significance than the Orthodox themselves do. Treating Orthodox Christianity dismissively is not in any way representative of Catholic thought concerning Orthodoxy.
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Not all the Orthodox think like these guys, don’t worry…
It’s only a little wind they make …
 
Agreed to all. Fatima is exclusively a Catholic thing. There is no need to drag Orthodoxy into it.
 
People nowadays…forcing others to believe the same stuff as they do 🤷
 
+1

While i stand on the Orthodox side I’m not going to be angry or annoyed if Catholics don’t believe in the miracle/apparition that happened in Orthodox
 
Vanez said:
+1

While i stand on the Orthodox side I’m not going to be angry or annoyed if Catholics don’t believe in the miracle/apparition that happened in Orthodox
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Many Catholics are open to Mary’s apparitions regardless of where they are. That is not a problem for them because they believe that Mary does appear to people she wants to, even to Muslims. It is just a matter of how authentic they are. There are processes for that and time will tell. There are thousands of purported apparitions in the Catholic world; not all of them have the same degree of importance.
 
Tomdstone said:
Many Catholics do not accept private revelations.
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Catholics accept that there is such things as private revelation. They believe that Mary does indeed can reveal herself to people still living, apparitions for example. That is a basic belief about private revelation with regard to Mary and there is little that Catholics can dissent.

What every Catholic must be aware of is that not all private revelations can be authentic. They are mindful of that and the Vatican’s standard of authenticating is even higher. In other word, Catholics are not obligated to believe purported apparitions as authentic, though they may do so if the revelation message has a common them, like exhorting them to pray. I think which is basically said in this thread.

I hope you can see the difference.
 
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