Do these Biblical verses apply that you are saved by work alone?

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ANV

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  • Most describable of Judgment day: No mention of faith, just work:
Matthew 25:31-46

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

*Matthew 7:21-23

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter .
  • Luke 10:25-37
  • Matthew 5-7
Many more, list too long…
 
James 2:24. But, you gotta have faith. It is both this and that, and not this or that, as is commonly heard. Each and every description of our judgment deals solely with what we have done.
 
ANV.

You basically asked about works “ALONE” (here) because the verses talk about the necessity of works in the context presented.

You cannot take verses that talk about the need for works, and ADD the word “ALONE” to them.

You as an atheist may not know that.

If I as a Catholic started doing that, you could come up with a “works ALONE” false doctrine (and then Catholics would be doing the same thing that many Bible-ONLY Christians are actually implicitly taught to do when they ADD the word “ALONE” to their favorite verses concerning the need for faith. (And we DO NEED faith by the way).

Just take all the verses, and affirm them all in the proper context and in light of the Tradition of the ONE authoritative Church.

God bless.

Cathoholic
 
ANV,

You are right on with your verses from Scripture. As clearly stated by the passages, helping the poor is a commandment from God, that is, something necessary for us to do do get to Heaven. Unfortunately, many Church leaders reduce the imperative of these readings to be simply a nice thing to do for the Lord.

Also, it is especially noteworthy that the verses call out each of us to personally help those in need. Tere is nothing here that alludes to us buying off someone else to do the dirty work for us. Hence, Scripture clearly requires us to get personally involved in helping others, and not just make a donation to our favorite charity and then sit back and say we are doing our part to help the poor.

As to being saved by works, this usually gets into a discussion where different people use different dictionaries. But Scripture clearly shws that we must act to avoid sin, and to do activity that is required in Scripture and by the Church. There is nothing in reading the totality of Scripture that supports the idea that just saying you have faith in God is all that is needed.
 
But these main verses specially the first paragraph that refers to the judgment day are obvious, there is no mention of faith
 
But these main verses . . . there is no mention of faith
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That’s OK ANV. That’s the way Bible writers often wrote in that age.

So you look at verse “A” and affirm it.

You look at verse “B” and affirm IT too.

And you look at verse “C” and affirm that as well.

But you don’t add the word “alone” when it is not there (even implicitly). And you strive to harmonize verses a, b, and c.

And if you do this with the salvation issue, you will find the Bible talks about a LOT of things.

Catholics affirm ALL those verses.

Many Bible-ONLY Christians on the other hand ADD the word “ALONE” into the verses about “faith” (at least in their mind). And ignore or CHANGE the other verses. There are reasons for that, which I won’t get into on this thread.

And also you look at what the Church (that the same Bible calls: “The pillar and foundation of the truth”) says.

Hope this helps.

Keep up the good work (asking, thinking, meditating on this all)!
 
ANV.

As you read about salvation you will encounter several personal “epochs”.

Pre-salvation
Initial moment of salvation
Lifelong process of salvation
  • Before
  • Moment
  • Process
Before you are saved God draws ALL MEN to Himself. This is an unmerited grace. The theological bigwigs call this God’s prevenient grace (just means God makes the first move).
This is completely gratuitous by God and unmerited by the person receiving this gift of grace.

During your moment of salvation is when you cooperate (or don’t resist) in grace. This “grace” is Baptism. Faith is always involved here. Faith that was given undeservingly earlier when God drew you to Himself. Baptism is just the entrance ramp to the Christian life and not its “whole” or as the CCC 1213 says the “gateway” to the Christian life.

During the lifelong process that follows this Baptismal moment, since you have now been EMPOWERED by God to accomplish things (always “things” united to God, and not “things” on your own), you are expected to DO so (which too is a grace but it is ALSO a real PARTICIPATION by you. These are the “works” you saw in the Bible that are NECESSARY (and the same “works” many Bible-only Christians will DENY the NECESSITY of. Even though you, an atheist, can plainly see those WORKS are REQUIRED. (As push-back against Catholicism in large part).

These same Bible Christians will loudly proclaim “works” as “important” but ask them if they are “NECESSARY” and that’s where the theological crumbling becomes evident. They will say something quite DIFFERENT from the verses you’ve read and asked about.

Bible Christians often times see salvation as a moment ALONE, so they are confused by these different epochs that we discussed. And a whole “hodge-podge” of theologies then develop amongst themselves.

Some have a partial understanding of God drawing ALL men to Himself (prevenient grace) and wrongly conclude EVERYBODY is saved. Or some have a partial understanding of this and think God doesn’t REALLY do what He says. God does NOT draw ALL men to Himself, but just a select few. Etc. Etc.

Concerning the second epoch–Baptism–You will see that sometimes is asserted correctly (i.e. by the Lutherans), while other Protestants whittle down “being born again” to “feelings”. “Feelings” they say come from the Holy Spirit. Some will invent traditions of men called “sinners prayers” that have partial truths, then ignore the REAL call to be re-born of WATER AND the Holy Spirit.

Incidentally. Many then DENY their “sinners prayer” was a “work”.

Then all kinds of strange doctrines that are not found in Scripture develop.

Because these various “salvation traditions” are un-Biblical, their pastors are forced to over-compensate and talk about salvation a LOT! They must constantly reaffirm the partial truths that they have, lest the people begin to ask questions about verses like YOU brought up *which they do not have good answers for in their theology).

Their salvation slogan is “justification by faith ALONE”.

You as an atheist ANV, have already seen this cannot be seen as in harmony with the verses you’ve brought out.

I hope this gives you more insight into your (excellent) question concerning salvation ANV.

By the way. Graces are God’s favor (Protestants affirm this) but GRACE is ALSO a PARTICIPATION in the life of God (which many Protestants DENY). Saving graces flow from the work of Jesus Christ on Calvary.
 
Grace abounding is the fruit of faith.

The gifts are the fruit of grace abounding.

The fruits the owner of the orchard is looking for from the fourth year, are the fruits of the gifts.

The axe is laid to the root of the trees.

Jesus is going to ask us whether we traded our talents with our fellow adopted widows and orphans in the profitable family firm (Prov ch 21), or whether we stunted their growth.

The disciples didn’t head hunt a slick operator or polished performer so that they could bask in reflected kudos. They recognised that the inconsiderable boy with inconsiderable loaves and fishes (probably the neighbourhood nuisance) had the other half of their gift and he recognised that they had the other half of his. (Also, they didn’t fold their arms and say, “what you gonna do about it then sonny”.) When they helped each other offer their lives to Jesus He fed the Church. Only then did the Church feed the world (and twelve baskets - even snake sized - isn’t all that sensational).

Since the year 1200 Catholics and Protestants alike have not believed in Holy Spirit power (institutionalised acedia). They competed in what they *left out of *the circle - as if that made one side better than the other.

The world isn’t going to be impressed what we can do for them (however much and however good), it will only be impressed by what we can do for each other - over and above what you do for fellow Irish or for people who went to the old school. What we do for the square peg in the church.

Not forgetting your fellow Irish or the people who went to the same kind of school as you, is works alone, without faith, doesn’t depend on faith or Holy Spirit power, therefore for those who are supposed to have been brought into God’s people is sin, total depravity.
 
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