''Do this in memory of me''

[Ag_not]

Perhaps you could give me a decent explanation of why Jesus said “It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you you, they are spirit, and they are life.” (John 6:63)?
Jesus said this during the time everyone was trying to understand what He meant by eating His flesh as the “living bread”.

What is the Spirit quickening and how does eating the living bread result in eternal life? v.54

I’ll give you as decent an explaination as I can, when you answer the questions I asked (Bruxilda is buying time to grab her Bible, catechism and posty notes ).

In Corinthians as quoted - how can you eat and drink in an UNWORTHY manner, if the whole show is only symbolic anyhow?

How can you eat and drink something symbolic and still discern the body and blood of christ and how can yoou bring judgement down upon yourself by NOT discerning that something sybolic is ACTUALLY the body and blood of Christ?

The ONLY way any of that would make sense is if it WAS the Body and Blood of Christ.

Again, what is so hard about a symbolism, that disciples that had been with Jesus from the beginning just about, who saw him raise the dead, walk on water, cure lepresy, heal the sick, drive out demons, would leave Him over this, and why didnt Jesus make it clear he was speaking symbolically. He explained parables before didn’t he? Why dont we read he explained the symbolism - instead we read he heard the murmurings, and they said this is a hard thing to hear, and they left. And Jesus asked Peter will you leave to, to which he replied where would I go. So Peter KNEW Jesus was talking literally, knew it was beyond human limited understanding, but STAYED with Jesus because he understood the significance of what Christ had just instituted.

 

[Ag_not]

Can you pin that down a bit better for me? Where in the scripture does it say that *by receiving the Holy Spirit *we are eating of Jesus’ flesh?

What passages specifically equate these two actions?

brkn1 - Another question you havent answered

 

[brkn1]

brkn1 - Another question you havent answered

You will not be able to understand the answer, since being born again is a vague concept to the RCC.
I have noticed how the RCC glosses over the most critical requirement of Jesus’ Gospel.

 

[brkn1]

I’ll give you as decent an explaination as I can, when you answer the questions I asked (Bruxilda is buying time to grab her Bible, catechism and posty notes ).

In Corinthians as quoted - how can you eat and drink in an UNWORTHY manner, if the whole show is only symbolic anyhow?

How can you eat and drink something symbolic and still discern the body and blood of christ and how can yoou bring judgement down upon yourself by NOT discerning that something sybolic is ACTUALLY the body and blood of Christ?

The ONLY way any of that would make sense is if it WAS the Body and Blood of Christ.

Again, what is so hard about a symbolism, that disciples that had been with Jesus from the beginning just about, who saw him raise the dead, walk on water, cure lepresy, heal the sick, drive out demons, would leave Him over this, and why didnt Jesus make it clear he was speaking symbolically. He explained parables before didn’t he? Why dont we read he explained the symbolism - instead we read he heard the murmurings, and they said this is a hard thing to hear, and they left. And Jesus asked Peter will you leave to, to which he replied where would I go. So Peter KNEW Jesus was talking literally, knew it was beyond human limited understanding, but STAYED with Jesus because he understood the significance of what Christ had just instituted.

Being disrespectful of the memory of what Jesus once did for us while breaking bread in Jesus’ Name is the same as rejecting His one Sacrifice. It still makes sense that God might punish those who act so hypocritically, especially during the time when the Holt Spirit was establishing Christ’s Church. It would be a real mess today, if the standards for sincerely were enforced the way it was then.

 

[Steadfast]

Hate to raise my hand when the discussion seems to have gone in a different direction but I was being a bit coy earlier: my point (and it seems to have been missed so shame on me for not being more direct) is that “Transubstantiation” is NOT the only way to understand the real presence. In fact, I believe it to be, well, shall we say, “biblically unlikely”, fraught as it is with aristotelian distinctions unknown to Scripture and repugnant to plain reason.

 

[CWBetts]

You will not be able to understand the answer, since being born again is a vague concept to the RCC.
I have noticed how the RCC glosses over the most critical requirement of Jesus’ Gospel.

We do not “gloss over” tje requirement to be born again. We just understand it in a differnt way than evangelicals. Being born again is contained in two of the Sacraments: Baptism and Confirmation. Baptism is beig born of watere, Confirmation of the Spirit. There is nothing in the Scriptures to indicate a fall to your knees instantaneous salvation experience that is irrevocable, which is what most evangelicals mean by “born again.”

 

[Hisalone]

This question is aimed at those people of christian faith, believing in the Bible, that do NOT believe in trans substanciation.

What do the words in the title mean to you, and how do you interpret this instruction of Our Lord, if it’s the case you do not go to a church that celebrates the Last Supper in any shape or form?

Bruxilda.

The Jews in memory of passover celebrated it every year. The story of how god delivered them out of bondage and into freedom was retold and all future generations the story was reminded to them.
When we partake in the Lords Supper and do this in memory of Jesus, we are obeying Him who commanded us, we are remembering that Jesus delivered us from the bondage of sin and into freedom, we with thanksgiving remember is passion and that He paid the price for our sins so that we no longer need to bear that burden.

 

[SimonArizona]

The Jews in memory of passover celebrated it every year. The story of how god delivered them out of bondage and into freedom was retold and all future generations the story was reminded to them.
When we partake in the Lords Supper and do this in memory of Jesus, we are obeying Him who commanded us, we are remembering that Jesus delivered us from the bondage of sin and into freedom, we with thanksgiving remember is passion and that He paid the price for our sins so that we no longer need to bear that burden.

And we go a step further to realize that it is the Word of God that nourishes and preserves those who believe God.-Wisdom

 

[Hisalone]

Read John 6. The Lord was speaking literally, no excuses. How do you deny the Lord?

I can back that up, but I’m short on time.

How can you not read John 6 and not know that Jesus is speaking spiritually not literally.

 

[Hisalone]

And we go a step further to realize that it is the Word of God that nourishes and preserves those who believe God.-Wisdom

Oh but we do believe the Word of God nourishes, preserves and gives life to all who believe.
We also know that the flesh profits nothing but it is the Spirit which gives life. Jesus’ words are life and they are spirit food not for the flesh but for the spirit, spiritual food.

 

[reteeks21]

This question is aimed at those people of christian faith, believing in the Bible, that do NOT believe in trans substanciation.

What do the words in the title mean to you, and how do you interpret this instruction of Our Lord, if it’s the case you do not go to a church that celebrates the Last Supper in any shape or form?

Bruxilda.

“Do this in memory of me” probably aren’t the right words to address this great topic (no offense). Of course we Protestants do it, but the issue of metaphysical change is hard for loads of people to accept. I would agree with you that it is more than metaphysical. I fall into the same line as Luther who said it IS Christ’s body and blood, but to say it is a metaphysical change is a bit of stretch. This is such a tricky and sticky subject for all Christians. Sometimes I think it causes more division than unity. But a great topic nonetheless.

 

[reen12]

It is literally impossible to do anything in the “memory” of the very same thing.

Passover Ritual?

In rememberance of the saving act of God in history?

reen12

 

[CWBetts]

The simple fact is that in John chpater six, after Jesus has commanded that we eat his flesh, many disciples left him. But Jesus did nothing to expalin it was only a parable. His other parables an metaphors are explained. What other conclusion can be drawn other than we are to drink his blood and eat his flesh? Where is the context that indicates that Christ was speaking metaphorically?

 

[TomaszA]

Peace Hisalone,

How can you not read John 6 and not know that Jesus is speaking spiritually not literally.

“For my flesh is REAL food and my blood is REAL drink.”
John 6:55

If Jesus says it’s real, it’s real! Furthermore verse 54 uses a Greek word which means chewing and gnawing, indicating that Jesus is referring to His flesh as real food!

The reaction of the listeners also indicates a literal interpretation. Previously if a crowd erred Jesus would correct them, examples include: John 3:3-6, 4:32-34; Matthew 16:6-12. In the case of John 6, Jesus does not correct their understanding but affirms it!

 

[reteeks21]

The simple fact is that in John chpater six, after Jesus has commanded that we eat his flesh, many disciples left him. But Jesus did nothing to expalin it was only a parable. His other parables an metaphors are explained. What other conclusion can be drawn other than we are to drink his blood and eat his flesh? Where is the context that indicates that Christ was speaking metaphorically?

A counter-argument there would be that Jesus said he was the door but does that mean He was made of wood? He said to the woman at the well that He was the living water, but He obviously wasn’t water. This can become a serious circular discussion! It’s enough to give you a headache.

 

[TomaszA]

Peace Reteeks,

A counter-argument there would be that Jesus said he was the door but does that mean He was made of wood? He said to the woman at the well that He was the living water, but He obviously wasn’t water. This can become a serious circular discussion! It’s enough to give you a headache.

The problem with a metaphorical interpretation of “Chewing Jesus’ Body” is that to consume flesh and blood in biblical language means to destroy! I doubt Jesus is telling the crowd to destroy Him!
**
I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh;
they will be drunk on their own blood, as with wine.**
Then all mankind will know
that I, the LORD, am your Savior,
your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob."
Isaiah 49:26

**On the right they will devour,
but still be hungry;
on the left they will eat,
but not be satisfied.
Each will feed on the flesh of his own offspring **
Isaiah 9:20

"When evil men advance against me
to devour my flesh,
when my enemies and my foes attack me,
they will stumble and fall.
Pslam 27:2

 

[reteeks21]

Peace Reteeks,

The problem with a metaphorical interpretation of “Chewing Jesus’ Body” is that to consume flesh and blood in biblical language means to destroy! I doubt Jesus is telling the crowd to destroy Him!
**
I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh;
they will be drunk on their own blood, as with wine.**
Then all mankind will know
that I, the LORD, am your Savior,
your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob."
Isaiah 49:26

**On the right they will devour,
but still be hungry;
on the left they will eat,
but not be satisfied.
Each will feed on the flesh of his own offspring **
Isaiah 9:20

"When evil men advance against me
to devour my flesh,
when my enemies and my foes attack me,
they will stumble and fall.
Pslam 27:2

And someone arguing that eating Jesus-i.e., cannabalism-isn’t destroying Jesus?

 

[TomaszA]

And someone arguing that eating Jesus-i.e., cannabalism-isn’t destroying Jesus?

Jesus said eating His flesh will give us eternal life, and I believe Him.

It’s easier to understand if you realize the Mass is a Sacrifice, and as the OT describes, the Sacrificial Offering is consumed.

 

[reteeks21]

Jesus said eating His flesh will give us eternal life, and I believe Him.

It’s easier to understand if you realize the Mass is a Sacrifice, and as the OT describes, the Sacrificial Offering is consumed.

And He also said He was a door for us to enter through, but He isn’t cedar, oak, or pine (or is He? ) And as I said before He also said He was the living water, but He wasn’t water. So how do you draw the distinction?

 

[Ag_not]

So how do you draw the distinction?

Reiteration - Jesus stresses the point several times that his body and blood are trans substanciated.

Indeed - he uses this word here - my flesh is indeed food and my blood is indeed drink. In other words, it really IS food and drink, not a symbol. Nowhere else does he say I am INDEED a door. I am INDEED water.

Reaction - Jesus KNEW that all those assembled were taking him LITERALLY. WHY then would he not correct them. As he did many times through out the Gospel. No. He knew some would leave Him over this.

Now, think about this. Jesus KNEW these discpiles were leaving him over this issue - and we are told they would not return to His ways - therefore they were damned maybe? - but Jesus came to save ALL men. So you have to ask the quesiotn WHY would the saviour of mankind allow people to be damned to Hell forever over a misunderstanding of symbolism.

No - Jesus was speaking Literally, and it was ‘‘hard to hear’’, and it was a test of the disciples and our faith, so that those, like Peter, who would stay and believe, would have Life.