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Inego_de_Loyola
Guest
I wasn’t asking rhetorically, I really want to know why such a marriage is invalid and not merely illicit.Well it definitely has the proper matter and minister; and it can have the right intention. For the purpose of my education may I ask what is the most essential necessary form of the sacrament?
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RemRam
Guest
we still have it
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1ke
Guest
Because the Church has authority over its members and deems it so:
Can.* 1108 §1. Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann. ⇒ 144, ⇒ 1112, §1, ⇒ 1116, and ⇒ 1127, §§1-2.
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moon1234
Guest
This really differs with the individual parish. When my wife and I were married in 1999, we met with the ICRSS priest twice before we were married. We had extensive interviews with him, he called the priest we had been doing one on one meetings with and discussed with him.
We did not need to wait 6 months or jump through some stupid hoops. Most traditional parishes will take couples on a case by case basis. I would highly suggest finding a parish where one on one with a PRIEST is the type of marraige counseling. You will get a LOT more out of it and the can skip over the parts that both of you already know and concentrate on areas where both or either of you need more knowledge.
Most of our instruction had to do with learning the proper responsiblities of marriage, what marraige is, etc. It is not hard and it really is nice to have a personal relationship with a priest. Much more rewarding than weekends with the group classes led by lay people. At least in my opinion.
We did not need to wait 6 months or jump through some stupid hoops. Most traditional parishes will take couples on a case by case basis. I would highly suggest finding a parish where one on one with a PRIEST is the type of marraige counseling. You will get a LOT more out of it and the can skip over the parts that both of you already know and concentrate on areas where both or either of you need more knowledge.
Most of our instruction had to do with learning the proper responsiblities of marriage, what marraige is, etc. It is not hard and it really is nice to have a personal relationship with a priest. Much more rewarding than weekends with the group classes led by lay people. At least in my opinion.
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Melchior_1
Guest
What you call “stupid hoops” I call “worthwhile education”.
My marriage prep weekend we learned communication, finances, sympto-thermal NFP, song selection and examples from a ARCT organist, what the Catholic Church considers marriage to be, a Q&A panel of “just married”, “married for ten years”, “married for 50 years” (three couples). A Theology of the Body presentation.
Overall, I recommend taking a marriage prep course.
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babochka
Guest
Wow! If only every engaged couple had access to such a program. With my first program, “Evenings for the Engaged”, when it came to the section on “responsible family planning” the nice couple informed us that “God doesn’t care.” Three of the six couples had been civilly married for years and were preparing for convalidation. I seriously doubt they were impressed by the very basic finacial and budgeting information provided. The other two couples had each been co-habiting for a number of years. We were the only couple who was not living together. We did not end up getting married, so several years later I went through “Engaged Encounter” with the man who is now my husband. It was better as far as fidelity to the teachings of the church, but was extremely shallow. We were practicing Catholics in our mid-30s who were well versed in the subjects being covered. Before these experiences, I really believed that the church had very good preparation for marriage, but afterward it just felt like a hoop to jump through.
As far as a 6 month “waiting period”, it really isn’t that. The 6 month time period is given to ensure that there is time to collect all documentation necessary, complete the required preparation, and book the church. We arrived at our meeting with the priest with copies of our Baptismal certificates in hand, complete with updated information about other Sacraments. We already had scheduled the Engaged Encounter. When we proposed a wedding date 3 1/2 months out, the priest didn’t bat an eye, just checked the calendar and scheduled the date. My husband’s cousin had a similar experience last month in a different diocese. The parish stated that 6 months notice was required, but the priest had no problem scheduling a wedding in 4 months.
I’m sure that pre-marital preparation is required in all parishes, but it can be accomplished in a number of ways, including personal meetings between the priest and the couple.
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CB_Catholic
Guest
People should not be commended for going into a marriage prep weekend or course with an attitude problem, as if it’s a waste of time. That suggests they are not taking the whole thing seriously or think they know better than the Church. If it’s being made fun of on Facebook, that person has a definite attitude problem and should be corrected, not commended.
My daughter and her fiancé’ attended an Engaged Encounter Weekend and it truly changed their lives. They had been cohabiting, and after the weekend she packed up and moved back home until the wedding. (3 hours from where she had been living). She realized their error and repented of it, and actually started to attend Mass and formed a relationship with Christ. She is happily married 12 years later with 2 lovely children and is a fine example of a Christian wife and mother.
My daughter and her fiancé’ attended an Engaged Encounter Weekend and it truly changed their lives. They had been cohabiting, and after the weekend she packed up and moved back home until the wedding. (3 hours from where she had been living). She realized their error and repented of it, and actually started to attend Mass and formed a relationship with Christ. She is happily married 12 years later with 2 lovely children and is a fine example of a Christian wife and mother.
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Rich_C
Guest
The priests of SSPX cannot validly perform a marriage because they lack faculties due to canonical irregularity. The Church has not declared them to be schismatic. Please mind the way you say things.
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moon1234
Guest
Hi Rich, It is best to just provide what you believe to be the correct information and not personally correct people.
You are correct that certain sacraments are extensions of permissions granted to the Bishop only. The ability to perform marraiges is one of those reserved to the Bishop. The Bishop must grant permission for priests to perform marraiges in his diocese. This is normally done by being incardinated into a diocese. Since the SSPX priests are not incardinated and their priests are not attached to an order with universal jurisdication (like a military diocese which is essentially worldwide) they can not validly perform the sacrament of marraige.
SSPX priests CAN hear confessions in a state of emergency (penitent in danger of immediate death), but then that right is extended to ANY priest regardless of their status.
Cardinals are the only ones besides the Pope who exercise universal jurisdiction on a routine bases. They can hear confessions anywhere without any special permission.
You are correct that certain sacraments are extensions of permissions granted to the Bishop only. The ability to perform marraiges is one of those reserved to the Bishop. The Bishop must grant permission for priests to perform marraiges in his diocese. This is normally done by being incardinated into a diocese. Since the SSPX priests are not incardinated and their priests are not attached to an order with universal jurisdication (like a military diocese which is essentially worldwide) they can not validly perform the sacrament of marraige.
SSPX priests CAN hear confessions in a state of emergency (penitent in danger of immediate death), but then that right is extended to ANY priest regardless of their status.
Cardinals are the only ones besides the Pope who exercise universal jurisdiction on a routine bases. They can hear confessions anywhere without any special permission.
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Cider
Guest
Even a protestant marriage is usually valid?
Marriages of non Catholics and non Christians are always presumed to be valid by the Catholic Church. If there is a question as to the validity of a marriage ( even those of non Catholics) it is sent the marriage tribunal to decide, but the presumption is always on the side of it being valid.
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Melchior_1
Guest
They are valid because they are not bound by Catholic (Canon) Laws, as they are not Catholic. The SSPX is Catholic, so they are bound by Canon Law.
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