Do we as Catholics worship Mary

[justinthemartyr]

That is a good effort.

Jesus is God, correct? Yes, He is.

Jesus established one Church, A church, not one among many.

Jesus is the Head of the Church, and the Body is also His.

Jesus is the Truth.

His Church is the pillar and foundation of that one Truth.

Jesus cannot be seperated from His Body(the Church).

Non Catholic’s are not one with the Church(Christ’s Body).
Some are visibly seperate and doctrinally seperate, yet may still be saved.
Those are only implicitly within the Church, and imperfectly connected. There is no salvation outside of Christ’s Body, the Catholic Church, based in Rome. They are not one. To be one is to be perfectly united and therefore explicitly united.

If you make it to heaven, which is not for me to judge, then you have only gone through the Catholic Church(Christ’s Body) to do so. There is no other way to Heaven than through Christ and His Body(the Catholic Church).

peace, Justin

 

[Deacon110]

That is a good effort.

Jesus is God, correct? Yes, He is.

Jesus established one Church, A church, not one among many.

Jesus is the Head of the Church, and the Body is also His.

Jesus is the Truth.

His Church is the pillar and foundation of that one Truth.

Jesus cannot be seperated from His Body(the Church).

Non Catholic’s are not one with the Church(Christ’s Body).
Some are visibly seperate and doctrinally seperate, yet may still be saved.
Those are only implicitly within the Church, and imperfectly connected. There is no salvation outside of Christ’s Body, the Catholic Church, based in Rome. They are not one. To be one is to be perfectly united and therefore explicitly united.

If you make it to heaven, which is not for me to judge, then you have only gone through the Catholic Church(Christ’s Body) to do so. There is no other way to Heaven than through Christ and His Body(the Catholic Church).

peace, Justin

I guess you’ll have to speak to GOD about what he has done for us and tell HIM HE was wrong. Make sure you tell HIM that you know better and that the only true church is the RCC.

You say you are not judging but then proceed to judge by saying I couldn’t possibly be saved without going through the RCC. Hmm was the thief part of the RCC. Seems to me James headed the first church in Jerusalem. They weren’t part of the RCC as it didn’t even exist then. Are they grandfathered in? Do you see how silly this argument is?

 

[Mannyfit75]

I guess you’ll have to speak to GOD about what he has done for us and tell HIM HE was wrong. Make sure you tell HIM that you know better and that the only true church is the RCC.

Jesus did established the Catholic Church.

You say you are not judging but then proceed to judge by saying I couldn’t possibly be saved without going through the RCC. Hmm was the thief part of the RCC. Seems to me James headed the first church in Jerusalem. They weren’t part of the RCC as it didn’t even exist then. Are they grandfathered in? Do you see how silly this argument is?

This is a wrong statement historically speaking. It is true James is the head of the Church in Jerusalem but St. Peter is the head of the entire Church after the Ascension of the Lord. He was the first who move the Apostle to replace Judas. The first who speak at Penecost, and the first to speak at the Council and all fell silent.

It is also traditional that elders are to be respected. Peter was pick by Jesus Christ as the leader of his Church because he had seniority. Jesus build his Church upon Peter and gave him the keys of the kingdom. In fact, the Greek Lexicon of Acts is stated there. Another Forum Member Church Militant made the connection.

History shows the ECF is the Catholic Church. It not comprised only of one city or location. It comprise of community of believers. Overtime, the Christian community grow into large metropolitan sees in the ancient world. There were five major patriarchiates. Rome, Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Constantinople. All of these Churches are major Churches. There were other churches as well such as those in Ephesus. These Churches make up one Church, the Catholic Church.

But this is another topic, which has been discussed here already.

 

[justinthemartyr]

I guess you’ll have to speak to GOD about what he has done for us and tell HIM HE was wrong. Make sure you tell HIM that you know better and that the only true church is the RCC.

You say you are not judging but then proceed to judge by saying I couldn’t possibly be saved without going through the RCC. Hmm was the thief part of the RCC. Seems to me James headed the first church in Jerusalem. They weren’t part of the RCC as it didn’t even exist then. Are they grandfathered in? Do you see how silly this argument is?

I now see that you read selectively. I in no way judged you.

I stated that anyone not explicitly catholic, if they make it to heaven, it is only through the Body of Chirst, the Catholic Church, implicitly. Yes, I DID state that persons visibly outside of the Catholic church can be saved, but only because they are implicitly still within the church because they are in Christ.

As far as your silly statement concerning the jeruselum church, of course the church was not termed “roman catholic” at that time. no one said it was. It was still the one church Christ established upon cephas(rock,peter) though, and that was the church at Jeruselum and is the very same church at rome, where cephas ended up.

show me a church in the first four centuries that was teaching something other than Catholic teaching in the first four centuries according to scripture. you can’t.

therefore the church Christ built was, and is the same church at Rome. you cannot prove otherwise.

 

[AgnosTheist]

If you make it to heaven, which is not for me to judge, then you have only gone through the Catholic Church(Christ’s Body) to do so. There is no other way to Heaven than through Christ and His Body(the Catholic Church).

that is a contradiction. you have practically judged everyone who is not part of the RCC.

 

[justinthemartyr]

that is a contradiction. you have practically judged everyone who is not part of the RCC.

I in no way judged anyone, and in fact, qualify that in the fist statement. You have selective vision.

did you read the rest of the post?

This is exactly what happened when the church declared this, and here it is again, in a much smaller format.

there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

what does this mean?
Anyone who is not explicitly catholic, and still makes it to heaven, only made it there because they were in Christ, and were therefore implicitly catholic.

Christ only has one body, there is but one fold and one shepherd. There is no salvation outside of Christ, and therefore outside of His body, the Catholic Church.

does this help in your understanding of what i said? I hope so, as I am not here to offend anyone, just proclaiming the Truth.

peace, justin

 

[AgnosTheist]

there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

ok you are just stating your faith.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

GOD does not ask us to honor Mary anywhere at all. HE wants us to honor only HIM and love and respect one another.

Ummmm I guess so much then for the 4th commandment huh? You know you that whole honor your mother and father thing? I am glad that according to you I no longer have to follow a Commandment of God. Or is it the 5th commandment in your church?

GOD has led me another way which I’m sure is hard to believe for you.

Tremendously hard.

God bless

 

[AgnosTheist]

Ummmm I guess so much then for the 4th commandment huh? You know you that whole honor your mother and father thing? I am glad that according to you I no longer have to follow a Commandment of God. Or is it the 5th commandment in your church?

That is a poor comparison. For even if you follow all 10 commandments, there is nothing there which supports prayers/venerations for dead religious heroes.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

That is a poor comparison. For even if you follow all 10 commandments, there is nothing there which supports prayers or honors for dead religious heroes.

I was not making a comparison read what Deacon wrote:

“HE wants us to honor only HIM”

Now keeping the 4th commandment in mind AgnosTheist is Deacon’s statement correct? I would say not seeing as how the 4th commandment tells us to honor our father and mother.

God bless

 

[rinnie]

Are we made brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ through our baptism? Doesn’t that make Mary our spiritual mother? So technically speaking, we are the children of Mary. Jesus did in fact gave an un-named disciple his mother. The reason why John didn’t write the name of the apostle is because it is meant for all disciples to take Mary into his own house. In the Greek Lexicon of John, the translation, stays, “From that hour, the disciple took Mary into his own.” Or current translation, from that hour, the disciple took Mary into his own home."

Actually the disciple was John. He call himself the one whom Jesus loved.

 

[justinthemartyr]

That is a poor comparison. For even if you follow all 10 commandments, there is nothing there which supports prayers/venerations for dead religious heroes.

prayer is communication.

Jesus communicated with the dead. Moses and Elijah. They were dead, right? then he had an audible discussion with them.

Therefore, in some great way, Christ communicated with the dead through prayer, right? right.

what? Moses and Elijah were alive? Their souls were saved and they were alive? it was only their body that died, not their souls?

wow. I guess that goes for the Mother of God(Jesus) also, and all the saints alive in heaven. I will follow Christ and His example and will also follow His Church that He established upon cephas, and will ask those who are with God, actually, to pray with me and for me to God.

 

[justinthemartyr]

Actually the disciple was John. He call himself the one whom Jesus loved.

that does not necessarily make it John, Jesus loves everyone. therefore the 'disciple" is everyone.

 

[rinnie]

that does not necessarily make it John, Jesus loves everyone. therefore the 'disciple" is everyone.

I dont disagree with what you are saying but if you read through scripture John always refered to himself the one who Jesus Loved. But yes he love everyone.

 

[st_lucy]

I dont disagree with what you are saying but if you read through scripture John always refered to himself the one who Jesus Loved. But yes he love everyone.

I know I had read it before but John being the humble servant that he was did this so that we can see that as true followers of Christ as he was we are the the disciple that Jesus’ loved.

 

[rinnie]

I know I had read it before but John being the humble servant that he was did this so that we can see that as true followers of Christ as he was we are the the disciple that Jesus’ loved.

See im just learning this in bible study but what i learned is if your read luke.mark,and Matthew. They are pretty much exactly the same. But when you get to John it the most different. I never knew this but i guess that there was alot of jealously between John and Peter because Jesus left the church to Peter. So that was Johns way of saying to Peter Look he left me to take care of his Mother because i was the one that stayed. Because how Peter denied Jesus. I guess it was a dig at Peter. Thats why he said im the one Jesus loved most. I learned for awhile the CC wasnt even sure is they were going to acknowledge Johns gospel because of it. but please im just learning this so until i learn more i cant really cant say. But im interested to see what the big difference is. there are so many clues in these books its like a mystery novel. so interesting. But that was Johns way of saying i didnt run and leave him i stayed behind. pretty neat huh

 

[st_lucy]

See im just learning this in bible study but what i learned is if your read luke.mark,and Matthew. They are pretty much exactly the same. But when you get to John it the most different. I never knew this but i guess that there was alot of jealously between John and Peter because Jesus left the church to Peter. So that was Johns way of saying to Peter Look he left me to take care of his Mother because i was the one that stayed. Because how Peter denied Jesus. I guess it was a dig at Peter. Thats why he said im the one Jesus loved most. I learned for awhile the CC wasnt even sure is they were going to acknowledge Johns gospel because of it. but please im just learning this so until i learn more i cant really cant say. But im interested to see what the big difference is. there are so many clues in these books its like a mystery novel. so interesting. But that was Johns way of saying i didnt run and leave him i stayed behind. pretty neat huh

I think that it is a little silly to think that John was jealous of Peter. After all aren’t the scriptures written by man through the Holy Spirit? Do you think the Holy Spirit would allow John to be so spiteful to throw that in there just to show that he was displeased with Jesus’ choice?

 

[justinthemartyr]

I dont disagree with what you are saying but if you read through scripture John always refered to himself the one who Jesus Loved. But yes he love everyone.

Yes, i do believe it was most likley john, yet scripture never says it was absolutely, and therefore God obviously wanted to transmit something a bit bigger in this passage, evidently.

 

[AgnosTheist]

prayer is communication.

Jesus communicated with the dead. Moses and Elijah. They were dead, right? then he had an audible discussion with them.

all prayers are communications but not all communications are prayers. jesus communicated with those two, i dont think he prayed to them.

and eh…reading the passage, i wonder why the gospel described the event as if jesus, moses & elijah were co-equals.

 

[rinnie]

I think that it is a little silly to think that John was jealous of Peter. After all aren’t the scriptures written by man through the Holy Spirit? Do you think the Holy Spirit would allow John to be so spiteful to throw that in there just to show that he was displeased with Jesus’ choice?

ok dont bite my head off but this is what i am learning. Yes scripture is absolutely the words of Jesus. But here is what i am learning. The early church had no bible. thats why we have tradition, and the bible. Now i guess people were fighting over what the disciples said. so this is what the king i guessed did. They went and got people they could find that have heard scripture. all religions. and they started. It would be like you heard this i heard that and the next person heard that… well they only put in what they could all agree on. it would be like your version, mine, your moms my moms. dads etc. now if i said this and your mom didnt agree. thats it it didnt go in. only what they all agreed on as truth. then years later when they found what they called the lost scribes or something sorry i can remember. it was exactly the same. But why they did this is because it was like hey if we dont get something down the people who did know the scripture are getting old are going to die . see what i mean. its like a car accident. you saw this i saw that the lady saw this. everyone had thier own version but only what could get agreed upon is what went in the first bible. thats why we cant go by the bible alone alot isnt in there. I may have said John said this but you may have said no he didnt, or i didnt hear him say that . see what i mean. thats why the bible isnt perfect. much is left out. and every time it is translated things get lost in translation. But thats why the church is so important because Peter taught the next Pope etc. oral things see what i mean. and they im sure have it written down. or pass it down see what i am saying.