Do We Find God or Does He Find Us?

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I here many reformed Christians say that they “found God.” Well that just doesn’t make any sense to me. God’s not lost. He knows where He is. We are the lost ones. We are the ones who need to be carried back into the fold.

“For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save what was lost.” Luke 19:10

“What is you opinion? If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them goes astray, will he not leave the ninety-nine in the hills and go in search of the stray?” Matthew 18:12
 
BabyFang said:
I here many reformed Christians say that they “found God.” Well that just doesn’t make any sense to me. God’s not lost. He knows where He is. We are the lost ones. We are the ones who need to be carried back into the fold.

“For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save what was lost.” Luke 19:10

“What is you opinion? If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them goes astray, will he not leave the ninety-nine in the hills and go in search of the stray?” Matthew 18:12
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I’m not sure. Everyone if different. I like the idea of leaving the 99 sheep and caring about the one lost. My father had 4 of us and he never searched for anyone of us. I think he would of been happy if the wolves ate us.
 
BabyFang said:
I here many reformed Christians say that they “found God.” Well that just doesn’t make any sense to me. God’s not lost. He knows where He is. We are the lost ones. We are the ones who need to be carried back into the fold.

“For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save what was lost.” Luke 19:10

“What is you opinion? If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them goes astray, will he not leave the ninety-nine in the hills and go in search of the stray?” Matthew 18:12
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We seek God, and God enables us to find Him. We will not find God if we do not seek Him; and we could not find Him if He did not want to be found. Paul says in one place:

Acts 19:

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

But on the other hand Job says:

Job 11:

7 Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection?

8 It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?

By “searching” here I believe is meant worldly search—i.e. book reading and studying philosophy and science etc. So man cannot find God in that way. The searching must be done in His own way; and the finding is also through His will. We find Him when He chooses to reveal Himself to us. In Mormon scriptures we have additional insight into how to seek Him in order to find Him:

D&C 88:

63 Draw near unto me and I will draw near unto you; seek me diligently and ye shall find me; ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
68 Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.

D&C 93:

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am;
 
Both are true in some way. But as Scott Hahn would say, at the heart of the Catholic faith is not so much man’s search for God, but God’s search for man.

Man is programmed to seek for God, who is the source of his life and of everything that is good, and through the use of reason, can know that God exists; but without God’s self-revelation to man, man can never know God, can never enter into a relationship with him.

I like the 2 verses that the Divine Office uses on St Augustine’s feast:
You stir us up, O Lord, and make us find joy in praising you, since you have made us for yourself; and our hearts find no rest until they rest in you.
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Late have I loved you, O beauty both ancient and new, late have I loved you. You called, you cried out and you rid me of my deafness.
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But as Scott Hahn would say, at the heart of the Catholic faith is not so much man’s search for God, but God’s search for man.
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Amen
 
I learned something new today. The information or knowledge already existed but I did not know about it or where to find it or perhaps just missed it before.

“Finding” God is similar. It may perhaps be better to say that it is “finding faith in God”, or attaining, achieving, seeking or reaching that position of faith. Perhaps it also means to those people that they have reached a better understanding or connection with God that wasn’t there before.

The term “finding” comes from the idea of being lost in worldliness, or being away from God. Like when some people say they have “returned to God”. Sometimes rather than finding, people basically “stumble upon” God at some moment in their lives–they may not have been consciously seeking God, but due to some thing or some one or some event, or the intervention of the Spirit, they “found” Him.

God is always “seeking” us, and gives us many opportunities to be closer to Him and to increase our faith. At times we may not see those opportunities or not respond to them. But God keeps trying anyway. At some point the fortunate “find” God by recognizing His call and responding.

Another way to think about it is that God doesn’t have to find us because He knows where we are every moment of our lives.

A very thoughtful question.
 
I love the story of the prodigal son.

His Dad give him it all, he wastes it and gets to the absolute bottom looking after pigs.

His Dad is still there we presume longing for the sons return.

When the son finally makes a decision to go home and makes an effort in doing this

Then his Dad runs down to meet him.

My Father loves me so much to show this thought My Brothers story but still i need to commit and take a step toward His openness.
 
BabyFang said:
I here many reformed Christians say that they “found God.” Well that just doesn’t make any sense to me. God’s not lost. He knows where He is. We are the lost ones. We are the ones who need to be carried back into the fold.

“For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save what was lost.” Luke 19:10

“What is you opinion? If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them goes astray, will he not leave the ninety-nine in the hills and go in search of the stray?” Matthew 18:12
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This really surprised me BF!!! Its usually the reformed group that talks about the election of God. If the spirit of a man is dead in sin, he cannot choose God. Jn. 6:44 says “no man can come to Me unless the Father draw him”. What happened to Calvin? What happened to the “five points” etc? Ask them what the deal is.
 
Kalos said:
This really surprised me BF!!! Its usually the reformed group that talks about the election of God. If the spirit of a man is dead in sin, he cannot choose God. Jn. 6:44 says “no man can come to Me unless the Father draw him”. **What happened to Calvin? **What happened to the “five points” etc? Ask them what the deal is.
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I think John Calvin followed his sinful nature and led many astray and has led many more after his death away. His works are like weeds.
 
I remember an old line to the effect that I sought God until He caught me. I forget even the context in which I encountered it, but it seems very apt.
 
If God is to find us we have to provide him the path to enter our lives.If someone continues in a life of Sin and rejection of God and his commandments God will not find him until he reaches out by way of repentance.Repentance is the pathway that man has to provide for the entry of the Holy Spirit,Remeber that God has given man the right to choose between right and wrong.
 
=BabyFang;5740655]I here many reformed Christians say that they “found God.” Well that just doesn’t make any sense to me. God’s not lost. He knows where He is. We are the lost ones. We are the ones who need to be carried back into the fold.
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“For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save what was lost.” Luke 19:10
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“What is you opinion? If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them goes astray, will he not leave the ninety-nine in the hills and go in search of the stray?” Matthew 18:12
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Here’s the way God works. First Faith is a GIFT from God. Granted to whom it pleases Him. Faith comes to us through God’s grace.

We are given an intellect. mind, freewill and soul precisely in order that we “may know God” which is the first step, already iniated by God.

We are then to use these Spiritual Gifts, to Know God, and accept His offer of grace.

When we take “one step / one Yes Lord”, God takes two towards us; if we take two steps God takes four towards us, and so on.

God cannot force us to accept Him without overriding the very way that He Created us, with these Spiritual Gifts, precisely so we can [and should, but can refuse to] say “yes” to God. The more often we say “yes” the more grace is bestowed and the closer we get to God.

The more we say “NOPE!” the less grace, and the more difficult it becomes to understand, and accept Christ. That friend is how Divine Justice and Fairness works.

So, get into the habit of saying “here I am Lord; I have come to do your will!”

Love and prayers,
 
BabyFang said:
I here many reformed Christians say that they “found God.” Well that just doesn’t make any sense to me. God’s not lost. He knows where He is. We are the lost ones. We are the ones who need to be carried back into the fold.
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They probably aren’t actually reformed, then. A true reformed/calvinistic Christian believes that it is God who seeks and saves the lost.

Here’s a good summary from calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm

“Calvinism also maintains that because of our fallen nature we are born again not by our own will but God’s will (John 1:12-13); God grants that we believe (Phil. 1:29); faith is the work of God (John 6:28-29); God appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48); and God predestines (Eph. 1:1-11; Rom. 8:29; 9:9-23).”

This is an issue that I believe we would agree with you Catholics on. 😉

It seems that God usually seeks and saves us by allowing us to “naturally” realize that the gospel is true. Many people perceive that they “discovered” God because of this - though it was actually God revealing the truth to them. So that may be why some Christians say they found God - they did discover God…but only because He was initiating and revealing Himself to them. 😉

Hope that makes sense.
 
JacktheCatholic said:
I think John Calvin followed his sinful nature and led many astray and has led many more after his death away. His works are like weeds.
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well well, not too charitable today, are we? i’m not one to defend Calv, but do you just happen to personally know many who have been led astray by him, or is this just a bit of unprovoked bitterness?
 
God is the initiator of all, the Creator, He starts things, in the same way that He initiates the relationship with us. He then gives us free will to choose to seek Him, find Him and pursue the relatiohship which God began.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (#27) states that: The desire for God is written in the human heart, because man is created by God and for God and God never ceases to draw man to himself…The dignity of man rests in the fact that he is called to communion with God.

Peace
Spirit 1333
 
hey there!

i just wanna say that this may simply be a “figure of speech”, a way to say that “hey, God found me!” but instead in the somewhat less theologically circumspect manner of the average Christian, “hey, i found God!”

granted, there may be some undertones of unpolished belief, hints that this Christian may not truly see God as an active person, but more of a passive belief system or religious organisation, which before his fateful “finding”, was merely sitting idly waiting for him to come along. but we do not know if he thought this, no?

perchance, it could be that this new Christian is unaware of how immensely greater than himself God really is, and decided that if he had not bothered to find Him, He may never have found him. or that if he did not take the initiative, God might never do so. these are equally nagging possibilities… but we do not know if Mr Reformed Christian thought this, no?

so the easiest conclusion is this: maybe he made an honest mistake. maybe if i get to know him better, i can find out if he really needs to brush up on his understanding of our Awesome Prodigal Son-retrieving God. maybe if i just spoke to him a little more… he might have astounded me with other simple truths of simple faith: stumbling / chancing upon / finding out about God was the one greatest fantabulous thing that ever happened in my life and when i say it out loud i forget the semantics!

btw… any chance that “we found each other… amid the wanton chaos of Hell waging war against Heaven on Earth”? maybe our great God intended it to be mutual… 🙂
 
He told me He loved me and revealed His Love to me and I could not resist Him 4 years ago after 40 years away and 30 years learning Buddhist meditation.
 
Dr. Peter Kreeft puts it something like this (which isn’t an exact quote since I don’t have his book handy):

There are four groups of people:
  1. Those that seek God…and have found him.
  2. Those that seek God…but haven’t found him yet, but will as all who seek find.
  3. Those that don’t seek God…and therefore don’t find Him.
  4. And the fourth group that doesn’t really apply. Those that don’t seek God…and find Him.
 
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