Do we focus too much on sexual purity and other things?

[ForwardProgress]

Hi all…I used to be ppcpilot on here a couple of years ago. Glad to be back.

Question:
The moral theo board is always filled with is this and that a mortal sin, ie, actions that we performed against God’s will.

Most of these involve things we do that crossed the ‘sin line’ esp sins of the flesh stuff.

In further contemplation and study, I think something we oft forget about is the sin of not helping the poor better than we do. Seems like we are so concerned about what we do behavior-wise, that we forget one of the main points in the Gospels. We are to help those less fortunate than ourselves in any way we can. That’s one of the things that Jesus’ ministry focused on.

I know the money we give to Church goes to various things that help the less fortunate. I am also a member of the KCs and we do things to help the less fortunate. I seem to work the soup kitchen once in awhile…but I guess my question is…is this enough? How many times have I done things and not helped out others and helped myself first?

Do our familes come first before others?

It’s a question that I wrestle with, and because we are so focused on is this a sin, or is that a sin, we lose sight of one of the things that Jesus really tried to hammer home to us; everyone is God’s child, and we need to really help one another. We always talk about how we should, but how often do we actually ‘do?’

I’m not saying that we should go and sin away b/c we spend our time/talent/treasure helping others be better…I am a strong believer in trying my best to live an upstanding and moral life. I cringe everytime I knowingly sin. I try and go to reconcillation often, but I seem like I spend my time fighting temptation than spending it helping others.

Comments? Don’t you think not doing enough to help others is one of the worst sins of all? Or am I crazy? (I think I know the answer to that!)

Blessings to all.

 

[Hastrman]

I think history shows every era goes nuts on a particular sin, and the others just sort of take the sidelight. In the Renaissance, the sin was despair. In the Enlightenment, the sin was pride. In the 19th to early-20th Century, greed. And now, lust. Our culture’s concerned with sex to an insane degree; to engage meaningfully at all, one must know what’s what.

All the 19th/early 20th Century Catholic thinkers (Chesterton, Newman, Pope Leo IX) were concerned with social justice, since society had gone mad on greed.

It does get a little old, though, doesn’t it?

 

[Della]

The Church in its wisdom has listed at least 14 ways, both bodily and spiritually, in which we can help people. They are called the Corporal and Spiritual Acts of Mercy. So, there’s plenty of things we can be doing, and it’s good for us to be aware of them and eager to jump in and be helpful whenever we can.

But no, I don’t think we put too much emphasis on avoiding sin, especially not in our day when temptation is literally thrown into our faces at every turn. Most of us aren’t towers of virtue and need to be constantly on our guard against temptations of all sorts, but most especially of those so readily open to us in our sin-soaked society.

 

[setter]

Hi all…I used to be ppcpilot on here a couple of years ago. Glad to be back.

Question:
The moral theo board is always filled with is this and that a mortal sin, ie, actions that we performed against God’s will.

In further contemplation and study, I think something we oft forget about is the sin of not helping the poor better than we do.

Comments? Don’t you think not doing enough to help others is one of the worst sins of all? Or am I crazy? (I think I know the answer to that!)

Blessings to all.

Why not both. Jesus is big enough to be concerned about all sins that affect the welfare of one’s soul. It is not an either/or situation. God hates sin. It is often the case that it feels like a hammer for the one caught in or willfully committing grave sin. Sometimes a hammer is needed to penetrate or crack the bonds of darkness and demonic oppression for the one snagged in the habit of grave sin. Speaking the truth in love is true compassion. You can only give to others what you first posses yourself.

 

[fix]

Do our familes come first before others?

I guess that needs to be explained a little bit more. Should our families not be first? I would think the order is God, spouse, children, ect.

 

[contramundum7]

Hi all…I used to be ppcpilot on here a couple of years ago. Glad to be back.

Question:
The moral theo board is always filled with is this and that a mortal sin, ie, actions that we performed against God’s will.

Most of these involve things we do that crossed the ‘sin line’ esp sins of the flesh stuff.

In further contemplation and study, I think something we oft forget about is the sin of not helping the poor better than we do. Seems like we are so concerned about what we do behavior-wise, that we forget one of the main points in the Gospels. We are to help those less fortunate than ourselves in any way we can. That’s one of the things that Jesus’ ministry focused on.

I know the money we give to Church goes to various things that help the less fortunate. I am also a member of the KCs and we do things to help the less fortunate. I seem to work the soup kitchen once in awhile…but I guess my question is…is this enough? How many times have I done things and not helped out others and helped myself first?

Do our familes come first before others?

It’s a question that I wrestle with, and because we are so focused on is this a sin, or is that a sin, we lose sight of one of the things that Jesus really tried to hammer home to us; everyone is God’s child, and we need to really help one another. We always talk about how we should, but how often do we actually ‘do?’

I’m not saying that we should go and sin away b/c we spend our time/talent/treasure helping others be better…I am a strong believer in trying my best to live an upstanding and moral life. I cringe everytime I knowingly sin. I try and go to reconcillation often, but I seem like I spend my time fighting temptation than spending it helping others.

Comments? Don’t you think not doing enough to help others is one of the worst sins of all? Or am I crazy? (I think I know the answer to that!)

Blessings to all.

 

[contramundum7]

contramundum7:
You have a point & its something i have thought about a lot…
As someone else said, why not both? And also, i think (no, i KNOW) that if all of us were “out there” helping others, being invovled in making the world a better place, we would have far less time to think about doing certain sinful things… sexual purity is like any other struggle: it involves dying to the self. Concerning one sin that a few people have mentioned in this forum: If one is not by oneself, one has less time to think about the self… Also, when we are caught up in doing good things, things that we know please God, we are happier & also more spiritual, less sensuous minded… therefore not inclined to think so much about the concerns of the flesh… (“make no provision for the flesh…”)
I sometimes seem like a hypocrite because i don’t always practice what i am saying here very well. I tend to be lazy about the charitable things you mention. But people (me, others) have their various problems, distractions, etc., that keep them from being all God wants them to be… (they have crosses to bear, etc.). Sometimes its hard to separate a valid “excuse” from a false one…

 

[pablo_rafael]

This is just my humble opinion. To answer in a word: YES.

I think that in the United States we have a tendency to think that sexual sins are among the worst. There is sort of a puritanical attitude that says, “Don’t talk about it. Keep it covered up. Sex is dirty.” I think a freer discussion about sexual issues would help, not hinder our spiritual walk. If healthy sexual relations were more freely spoken about, the topic would not have the sensationalism it does. Nor would unhealthy desires and actions have so much appeal. If we could have as easy a discussion on sexual matters as we do on helping the poor, we could all help ourselves when faced with temptation.

Jesus sums up the law with one word LOVE. Love involves doing, more than it involves **not **doing. A Christian should be known by how he/she shows love to others not just by what he /she doesn’t do. God showed His love to us by doing something. He gave His Son and showered His grace down on us as a free gift. That is the example of what love is.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

 

[Pug]

I seem to work the soup kitchen once in awhile…but I guess my question is…is this enough?

Enough how? Perhaps you are asking a theological question, or perhaps you are asking for yourself, “Am I doing what the Lord is asking of me?” If you have free time and resources, God may be asking you to use them in his service. There is that parable about the guy with the 1 talent who buried it instead of using it. This requires prayer and discernment. You do have an obligation to spouse and children before doing some things. Doing things for your family is a good thing. You are not neglecting proper love of neighbor by caring for your children as you ought.

Theologically, there is not some list of things, like you need to visit the soup kitchen one more time and then you’re in the clear. If you are living in Christ, loving the Father, this is where it is at. This may unfold in a particular person’s case in different ways, like prayer for others or visiting the imprisoned. It just depends.

Someone made a good point. You can’t share what you don’t have. Sharing the love in Christ is important. If you have broken that tie with God, fix it. It is of high priority. But I’d still stop to help a man up who has fallen in the street while on my way to confession.

 

[contramundum7]

This is just my humble opinion. To answer in a word: YES.

I think that in the United States we have a tendency to think that sexual sins are among the worst. There is sort of a puritanical attitude that says, “Don’t talk about it. Keep it covered up. Sex is dirty.” I think a freer discussion about sexual issues would help, not hinder our spiritual walk. If healthy sexual relations were more freely spoken about, the topic would not have the sensationalism it does. Nor would unhealthy desires and actions have so much appeal. If we could have as easy a discussion on sexual matters as we do on helping the poor, we could all help ourselves when faced with temptation.

Jesus sums up the law with one word LOVE. Love involves doing, more than it involves **not **doing. A Christian should be known by how he/she shows love to others not just by what he /she doesn’t do. God showed His love to us by doing something. He gave His Son and showered His grace down on us as a free gift. That is the example of what love is.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

 

[contramundum7]

contramundum7:
i think LOVE is the most ill-defined (not to mention mis-used) word in the Eng (or any other) language. What does a person mean when he/she says “love”? Conditional love? Unconditional? When we love someone, what does it mean as far as how we treat that person?
4 example: I know people who claim to love, yet in my opinion, they, objectively speaking, do not really love. Some people think that to let their children do whatever they want is “love”. I say that’s baloney. For the sake of brevity, i would just like to say that, cynic that i am… the word love means virtually nothing to me. Some think its loving to kill people (abortion, euthanasia)…
Anyway, as mentioned b4 in a different post, more people end up in Hell over sexual sins than any other kind. That is the best reason for helping people to overcome those kinds of sins…

 

[manualman]

There is a fairly simple answer.

Try a post like this. “Jesus taught us to get personally involved in helping the needy, the powerless and the hungry. Why aren’t we doing more?”

Now watch and see how many people post an argument AGAINST helping the needy. To be sure, you will get MANY arguments about how best to do it. But I doubt you get ANYBODY coming on to say “Let the buggers die, it make the human race stronger to kill off the weaklings.”

On the other hand, read up on threads regarding sodomy, contraception, fornication that you feel are too numerous. There are indeed quite a few folks who think that these things AREN’T REALLY SINFUL.

That is the difference. On the one hand, no basic controversy. On the other, there are a lot of folks trying to reinvent christian morality in contradiction to revelation.

 

[distracted]

There is a fairly simple answer.

Try a post like this. “Jesus taught us to get personally involved in helping the needy, the powerless and the hungry. Why aren’t we doing more?”

Now watch and see how many people post an argument AGAINST helping the needy. To be sure, you will get MANY arguments about how best to do it. But I doubt you get ANYBODY coming on to say “Let the buggers die, it make the human race stronger to kill off the weaklings.”

On the other hand, read up on threads regarding sodomy, contraception, fornication that you feel are too numerous. There are indeed quite a few folks who think that these things AREN’T REALLY SINFUL.

That is the difference. On the one hand, no basic controversy. On the other, there are a lot of folks trying to reinvent christian morality in contradiction to revelation.

 

[distracted]

distracted:
i’m not sure i get your point. Are you saying that we should not post about controversial issues? Or are you saying the opposite?
It is interesting, though, & something i never thought of… how one “good deed” is universally accepted as being good and others, usually those of a sexual nature, are not…
I think part of the reason is that people believe what they want to believe, generally speaking.
another interesting thing (4 me) is that i now see things as seriously sinful that i never used to view that way until i prayed the rosary and came back to the Church… which gives me insight into where people are coming from who disagree - i can remember where i used to be… Even so, the reason i couldn’t see how wrong certain sins were b4 was because i was young & immature & never realized or observed all the horrific consequences of sin in my life and the lives of others… I guess i had my mind on other things. That’s why i like the rosary - it focuses the mind on the things of God…

 

[manualman]

I’m for posting about both.

But it is human nature that the DISPUTED topic will generate more discussion and argument than the topic we generally all agree upon (in principle, if not in strategy).

 

[ForwardProgress]

I’m for posting about both.

But it is human nature that the DISPUTED topic will generate more discussion and argument than the topic we generally all agree upon (in principle, if not in strategy).

No, I’m talking about getting judged, and saying God, I have tried my best to stay away from the deadly sins, and keeping my mind pure, and things that I do holy, etc…

Then He comes back with:
Well, FP, you have focused so much energy on staying pure, and following rules and such, and that is a good thing, but you really failed in the most central message of my love, and that is to love everyone as yourself. If all that energy you took in following rules and fighting temptation were put into helping your less fortunate brothers and sisters turn their lives around and understanding the depths of my love no matter what their dispair may be, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

I tend to fall into camp 1, vs camp 2. I try to do all the things right and to battle temptation 24/7 and live my moral life to what our Church teaches, but I end up so exhausted spiritually from doing that, that I don’t have the time or motivation to do part 2…

I hope my thoughts are clear…it’s just something I think about. I’m not trying to ‘get out’ of behaving morally; just trying to figure things out.

 

[Chancellare]

Most of these involve things we do that crossed the ‘sin line’ esp sins of the flesh stuff.

In further contemplation and study, I think something we oft forget about is the sin of not helping the poor better than we do. Seems like we are so concerned about what we do behavior-wise, that we forget one of the main points in the Gospels. We are to help those less fortunate than ourselves in any way we can. That’s one of the things that Jesus’ ministry focused on.
Comments? Don’t you think not doing enough to help others is one of the worst sins of all? Or am I crazy? (I think I know the answer to that!)

Blessings to all.

I would have been easy to say “both” and get on with it. But in this world dominated by materialism and relativism, the first and unsung casualty is our so-called “interior life”. I think this is where our soul resides. In our secular environment, interior life has become the dust bin of human existence. Take a look at the sexual scandals among priests, media and political figures, the Enrons, and other high profile figures. Multiply this by a few millions to include the rest of us ordinary denizens and you get the panorama of sins committed by the human race because these are ‘private things’ done ostensively while ‘no one was looking’ or ‘it’s none of your business’. We have grown numb from constant media exposure on everything nice about external appearance, cheap fun and wealth accumulation while we neglected our ‘interior lives’. Sometimes people try to simplify things by doing charity works for ‘compensatory’ purposes.But in the end, we are just kidding ourselves. Nothing is more tragic than the death of one’s soul. We end up like the white tombs that Jesus refered to in his remarks about the Pharisees: immaculately clean on the outside but full of maggots inside. As experts steeped in legal and philosophical niceties, they did not calculate that without a soul, all their good works will amount to nothing. But equally important, God expects us to also bear fruits in the form of good works.
This is the issue confronting us but refuse to face.
In contrast the door is open to all to attain purity and cleanness of heart. Christ’s invitation is always there: “Blessed are the pure of heart for they will see God”.

 

[Chancellare]

i think LOVE is the most ill-defined (not to mention mis-used) word in the Eng (or any other) language. What does a person mean when he/she says “love”? Conditional love? Unconditional? When we love someone, what does it mean as far as how we treat that person?
4 example: I know people who claim to love, yet in my opinion, they, objectively speaking, do not really love. Some people think that to let their children do whatever they want is “love”. I say that’s baloney. For the sake of brevity, i would just like to say that, cynic that i am… the word love means virtually nothing to me. Some think its loving to kill people (abortion, euthanasia)…
Anyway, as mentioned b4 in a different post, more people end up in Hell over sexual sins than any other kind. That is the best reason for helping people to overcome those kinds of sins…

A quick reading of the Theology of the Body will dispell most of your doubts about the meaning of LOVE, especially related to communion between people.
Thanks be to God for John Paul the Great!

 

[fix]

Well, FP, you have focused so much energy on staying pure, and following rules and such, and that is a good thing, but you really failed in the most central message of my love, and that is to love everyone as yourself. If all that energy you took in following rules and fighting temptation were put into helping your less fortunate brothers and sisters turn their lives around and understanding the depths of my love no matter what their dispair may be, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

We follow the rules of the Church because there are God’s rules. We follow God’s rules because we love Him. How can we claim to love God if we think His rules are a burden? We act out of love.

***Blessed is the man who takes delight in the law of the Lord ***(cf. Ps 1:1-2)… Those who live “by the flesh” experience God’s law as a burden, and indeed as a denial or at least a restriction of their own freedom. On the other hand, those who are impelled by love and “walk by the Spirit” (Gal 5:16), and who desire to serve others, find in God’s Law the fundamental and necessary way in which to practise love as something freely chosen and freely lived out. Indeed, they feel an interior urge — a genuine “necessity” and no longer a form of coercion — not to stop at the minimum demands of the Law, but to live them in their “fullness”. This is a still uncertain and fragile journey as long as we are on earth, but it is one made possible by grace, which enables us to possess the full freedom of the children of God (cf. Rom 8:21) and thus to live our moral life in a way worthy of our sublime vocation as “sons in the Son”…

Veritatis splendor

I tend to fall into camp 1, vs camp 2. I try to do all the things right and to battle temptation 24/7 and live my moral life to what our Church teaches, but I end up so exhausted spiritually from doing that, that I don’t have the time or motivation to do part 2…

They are not mutually exclusive. They are two sides of the same coin.

This certainly does not mean that Christ wishes to put the love of neighbour higher than, or even to set it apart from, the love of God. This is evident from his conversation with the teacher of the Law, who asked him a question very much like the one asked by the young man. Jesus refers him to *the two commandments of love of God and love of neighbour *(cf. Lk 10:25-27), and reminds him that only by observing them will he have eternal life: “Do this, and you will live” (Lk 10:28)…

Saint Augustine asks: “Does love bring about the keeping of the commandments, or does the keeping of the commandments bring about love?” And he answers: “But who can doubt that love comes first? For the one who does not love has no reason for keeping the commandments”.29
Veritatis splendor

 

[Sixtus]

Amazing, truely amazing. All the cruelty in the world, vulnerable people dying from hunger and denial of their rightful share of the worlds resources, folk in Oriental, Indian and African sweatshops working 18-hours a day for a $1 a day. In some South American countries, computer manufacturers do not pay staff while they are training. They get no sick pay medical care or holiday pay. They work for a poultry sum. The owners are multi-billionares, etc etc and all we worry about are 'sexual sins of the flesh!!!

I think our sense of morality has gone seriously off track.