Do we have a duty to love our country?

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I’m sorry if I’ve posted this question in the wrong place, but wasn’t sure where it really belonged.

Regarding the question itself: I’ve been told that we have a duty to love our country, and I see that displayed by both Catholic and secular people (and Americans seem to be particularly zealous in this - I’m from the UK), but it is something that really mystifies me. I feel no love whatsoever for my country - if anything, I feel disdain. Is this considered to be wrong by the Church?

Thanks.
 
From a personal view, there is no ‘duty’ to love your country. If you do, there is no problem in showing it, but, for example, the phrase: ‘My country right or wrong’ is abhorrent to me.

I don’t understand the concept of being a traitor. At least in regard to supporting another country in opposition to the place where you were born.
 
Hi Bradski.

I don’t see love of country as necessary from a personal point of view either, but if the Church teaches that it is indeed a duty, then I obviously have it wrong, and need to address that. I realise that the Church will be right, and I will be wrong - I just need to know what my duty is, and then to discover why the Church is right, rather than entrench myself in my own error.

As for supporting a foreign power against your own native land, I have to say, had I been alive during the Elizabethan era (I’m English) I certainly would have supported the Spanish invasion of England to liberate the native Catholics, and restore the true faith. It was claimed at the time that a good Catholic was a bad Englishman - if they had been talking about me, they’d have had that exactly right.

Thanks for the reply.
 
I’m sorry if I’ve posted this question in the wrong place, but wasn’t sure where it really belonged.

Regarding the question itself: I’ve been told that we have a duty to love our country, and I see that displayed by both Catholic and secular people (and Americans seem to be particularly zealous in this - I’m from the UK), but it is something that really mystifies me. I feel no love whatsoever for my country - if anything, I feel disdain. Is this considered to be wrong by the Church?

Thanks.
That is a very complicated question that, sadly, leads itself to some really oversimplified answers.

The short answer is: It depends.

Should you love your fellow countrymen whether they “deserve” that love or not? Absolutely. Look at the example of Christ.

Should you care for your cultural and spiritual heritage? Probably, at least to some degree.,provided, upon analysis, that it lines up with the teachings of the Church that were extant at that time. A couple of egregious examples:
  • Many, if not most, countries at least tolerated slavery for many centuries. Obviously, the teachings of the Church do not endorse slavery. And that has been the consistent decree of the Holy See since, if memory serves correctly, the 15th Century. Should one be ashamed of this after that time? Probably. However, should one despise a country for holding slaves prior to that time? (when there was no moral edict preventing it) I would submit that one should be a little more tolerant prior to then.
  • There are some countries that have had official programs of genocide in their past (I won’t list the obvious choice, desiring not to invoke Godwin’s Law). Those are shameful episodes in any country’s history. Denying that is ludicrous. If the consensus of the population in a country tries to justify it or deny it (despite being presented unequivocal proof to the contrary), I would be loathe to associate myself with such.
  • The majority of countries in the civilized world support the wholesale slaughter of babies in their mothers’ wombs. See my comments on genocide, above.
  • And so on, regarding any number of topics.
The Church authorizes civil disobedience and even, in extreme instances, armed rebellion, when conditions of life and religious freedom become intolerable:
** 400. **Recognizing that natural law is the basis for and places limits on positive law means admitting that it is legitimate to resist authority should it violate in a serious or repeated manner the essential principles of natural law. Saint Thomas Aquinas writes that “one is obliged to obey … insofar as it is required by the order of justice”.[823] Natural law is therefore the basis of the right to resistance.
There can be many different concrete ways this right may be exercised; there are also many different ends that may be pursued. Resistance to authority is meant to attest to the validity of a different way of looking at things, whether the intent is to achieve partial change, for example, modifying certain laws, or to fight for a radical change in the situation.
** 401. *The Church’s social doctrine indicates the criteria for exercising the right to resistance: “Armed resistance to oppression by political authority is not legitimate, unless all the following conditions are met: 1) there is certain, grave and prolonged violation of fundamental rights, 2) all other means of redress have been exhausted, 3) such resistance will not provoke worse disorders, 4) there is well-founded hope of success; and 5) it is impossible reasonably to foresee any better solution”.[824] Recourse to arms is seen as an extreme remedy for putting an end to a “manifest, long-standing tyranny which would do great damage to fundamental personal rights and dangerous harm to the common good of the country”.[825] The gravity of the danger that recourse to violence entails today makes it preferable in any case that passive resistance *be practised, which is “a way more conformable to moral principles and having no less prospects for success”.[826]
But the question is: if a person licitly participates in such a thing, is that person not, in fact exercising a “love for country”, trying to right that country’s direction to be more in alignment with the teachings of Christ?

Like I said, a very difficult question with no easy answer.
 
I think the answer to this lies in the definition of loving one’s country. Jesus commanded us to love our brothers as ourselves. This includes our countrymen as well as the foreigner. He also said render unto Caesar what is due. I believe this means recognize the authorities God has put into place on Earth.

So it seems beneficial to pray for our countries (which is an act of love) especially for those who serve or govern. As with the people, we are obliged to love the people but hate the sin. We can therefore love our country, while hating its sins because as an entity it is made up of the children of God.
 
I don’t trust someone who would support another country over their own. If you don’t love your own, you can’t love another. Your responsibilities and loyalties are to those near you, not to those far away. It’s all pretend for someone to worry about those far away when they don’t care about those near to them.
 
That is a very complicated question that, sadly, leads itself to some really oversimplified answers.

The short answer is: It depends.

Should you love your fellow countrymen whether they “deserve” that love or not? Absolutely. Look at the example of Christ.

Should you care for your cultural and spiritual heritage? Probably, at least to some degree.,provided, upon analysis, that it lines up with the teachings of the Church that were extant at that time. A couple of egregious examples:
  • Many, if not most, countries at least tolerated slavery for many centuries. Obviously, the teachings of the Church do not endorse slavery. And that has been the consistent decree of the Holy See since, if memory serves correctly, the 15th Century. Should one be ashamed of this after that time? Probably. However, should one despise a country for holding slaves prior to that time? (when there was no moral edict preventing it) I would submit that one should be a little more tolerant prior to then.
  • There are some countries that have had official programs of genocide in their past (I won’t list the obvious choice, desiring not to invoke Godwin’s Law). Those are shameful episodes in any country’s history. Denying that is ludicrous. If the consensus of the population in a country tries to justify it or deny it (despite being presented unequivocal proof to the contrary), I would be loathe to associate myself with such.
  • The majority of countries in the civilized world support the wholesale slaughter of babies in their mothers’ wombs. See my comments on genocide, above.
  • And so on, regarding any number of topics.
The Church authorizes civil disobedience and even, in extreme instances, armed rebellion, when conditions of life and religious freedom become intolerable:
** 400. **Recognizing that natural law is the basis for and places limits on positive law means admitting that it is legitimate to resist authority should it violate in a serious or repeated manner the essential principles of natural law. Saint Thomas Aquinas writes that “one is obliged to obey … insofar as it is required by the order of justice”.[823] Natural law is therefore the basis of the right to resistance.
There can be many different concrete ways this right may be exercised; there are also many different ends that may be pursued. Resistance to authority is meant to attest to the validity of a different way of looking at things, whether the intent is to achieve partial change, for example, modifying certain laws, or to fight for a radical change in the situation.
** 401. *The Church’s social doctrine indicates the criteria for exercising the right to resistance: “Armed resistance to oppression by political authority is not legitimate, unless all the following conditions are met: 1) there is certain, grave and prolonged violation of fundamental rights, 2) all other means of redress have been exhausted, 3) such resistance will not provoke worse disorders, 4) there is well-founded hope of success; and 5) it is impossible reasonably to foresee any better solution”.[824] Recourse to arms is seen as an extreme remedy for putting an end to a “manifest, long-standing tyranny which would do great damage to fundamental personal rights and dangerous harm to the common good of the country”.[825] The gravity of the danger that recourse to violence entails today makes it preferable in any case that passive resistance *be practised, which is “a way more conformable to moral principles and having no less prospects for success”.[826]
But the question is: if a person licitly participates in such a thing, is that person not, in fact exercising a “love for country”, trying to right that country’s direction to be more in alignment with the teachings of Christ?

Like I said, a very difficult question with no easy answer.
Thanks Mark. I agree that there are many facets to this. I guess that you’re not aware of any explicit teaching on this specifically then? I’m beginning to think that there actually isn’t one.
 
I think the answer to this lies in the definition of loving one’s country. Jesus commanded us to love our brothers as ourselves. This includes our countrymen as well as the foreigner. He also said render unto Caesar what is due. I believe this means recognize the authorities God has put into place on Earth.

So it seems beneficial to pray for our countries (which is an act of love) especially for those who serve or govern. As with the people, we are obliged to love the people but hate the sin. We can therefore love our country, while hating its sins because as an entity it is made up of the children of God.
Hi Faith.

Yes, of course we must love our neighbour, and pray for those in authority etc, and you are right, these things are bound up together. However, my neighbour is not just someone who happens to share the same nationality, nor should I just want my own nation to live in accord with the will of God. I’m just not sure what the Church actually teaches about the specific duty of loving one’s country - if the Church does actually teach anything on this concept, as it were.

Thanks.
 
I don’t trust someone who would support another country over their own. If you don’t love your own, you can’t love another. Your responsibilities and loyalties are to those near you, not to those far away. It’s all pretend for someone to worry about those far away when they don’t care about those near to them.
Hi Jimmy.

I’m sorry, but I’m not sure what the relevance of your comment is to the question? Are you just offering a personal opinion, or is this based (loosely) on something more substantial

I personally wouldn’t trust someone who would support their country, as Bradski says ‘right or wrong’, and we are called to obey a higher law than that devised by our governments. In fact, it is they who have a duty to lead, legislate and govern in accord with that law.

We have to ‘render unto Caesar’, of course, but this doesn’t mean, for instance, to uphold and support abortion because the laws of our countries do.

Do I have more respect and love for the peoples of a country who have rejected the legalisation of same-sex marriage and abortion than I do for my own countrymen who embrace every error and sickness with relish and frenzy, and attack God with every breath? You bet I do! But the question is, do I have a duty to love my country regardless?

Thanks.
 
I am Canadian. I love both Canada and America for what they both (for the time being) assure : Religious Freedom, My freedom to speak my mind and a generally, safe enviroment. Do you have a duty?? I dont know. Sometimes I too am guilty of looking with loathing upon both because of abortion, miltant atheism etc. However I do want everyone on this planet to be saved, regardless of how they have treated me. I am proud of my Catholic Faith, and that is one thing that I am most certain about: Loving my Catholic Faith. I love her to bits. I love everything she teaches, what she stands for etc., I most especially love the PERSON who instituted Her. She has weathered every persecution, scandal etc., and She is still growing strong. Her mission isnt the economy (although She does ask for a good one from the nations). Her mission is to save the souls of those who are inside the “Bark of Peter”. Her mission is to protect the right to life for everyone, Her mission is to help the poor, feed the sick, Her mission is to pray for everyones soul, Her mission is to absolve and heal the soul in Confession, Her mission is to offer the PERFECT SACRIFICE, from The Rising of the Sun, to its setting. Her mission is to save our souls, like a Mother to her children…

I am proud of these countries, but nothing approaches on how much I love my Mother, the Church, and Our LORD JESUS CHRIST…
 
I am Canadian. I love both Canada and America for what they both (for the time being) assure : Religious Freedom, My freedom to speak my mind and a generally, safe enviroment. Do you have a duty?? I dont know. Sometimes I too am guilty of looking with loathing upon both because of abortion, miltant atheism etc. However I do want everyone on this planet to be saved, regardless of how they have treated me. I am proud of my Catholic Faith, and that is one thing that I am most certain about: Loving my Catholic Faith. I love her to bits. I love everything she teaches, what she stands for etc., I most especially love the PERSON who instituted Her. She has weathered every persecution, scandal etc., and She is still growing strong. Her mission isnt the economy (although She does ask for a good one from the nations). Her mission is to save the souls of those who are inside the “Bark of Peter”. Her mission is to protect the right to life for everyone, Her mission is to help the poor, feed the sick, Her mission is to pray for everyones soul, Her mission is to absolve and heal the soul in Confession, Her mission is to offer the PERFECT SACRIFICE, from The Rising of the Sun, to its setting. Her mission is to save our souls, like a Mother to her children…

I am proud of these countries, but nothing approaches on how much I love my Mother, the Church, and Our LORD JESUS CHRIST…
Hi.

Thanks for your answer. Your position is very similar to mine, I suppose. I take your point about loving your country for the positives, as well as looking upon the negatives with disgust. I can’t seem to find anything in the Catechism on loving one’s country, so perhaps it isn’t a specific duty after all.

I notice you are a lover of the Traditional Mass - Deo Gratias! I’m a member of the Latin Mass Society myself.

Thanks again.
 
Yes I am a “trad”. I love the EF. It is solemn, it is beautiful and full of grandeur. I am discerning a vocation with some very traditional minded groups for e.g. FSSP, Institute of CHRIST THE KING, Franciscans of the Immaculate, Knights of the HOLY EUCHARIST etc. I also do love the NO, epsecially when its celebrated VERY reverently. It can be a very, very, very beautiful MASS.
 
Nationalism seems to me - and nationalism, used as this, is exaggerated patriotism, of the sort where some make of it a religion - is the cult of the nation, worshipping the nation instead of God Almighty. No one country is inherently superior to another; cultures can be inferior or superior; economies can be inferior or superior; actions in history can be, as well; but, an Egyptian is no better than a Saudi, based on the country he lives in, nor is a Dane better than a Swede, nor a Frenchman better than a Dutchman, nor an American better than a European.

Hillaire Belloc wrote about this tangentially, but intensively, over the course of his popular history book, “Characters of the Reformation”, which contains, scattered throughout its pages, the best critique of nationalism I’ve ever read. Honestly.

Who was it that said, “We should love and respect our cultures [not countries] as a mother, as one who gave us birth according to the flesh, but when we enter the Church, we are born again according to the Spirit, and realize that it knows better for us than our native culture” - or something like that, I didn’t capture the poetry of the original.

No, there is no obligation to love one’s country, only the Church. One should dislike the bad about one’s country, and like the good: but to view one’s country, or any other, in black and white, as “America the Great, and Europe the Socialist Trash”, is incorrect.
 
I think some people confuse loving their country with loving their government or government leaders. Frankly, I cannot stand the Obama government that is in power right now, but I still feel a great affection for the good ol’ U. S. of A. I’m sure some people felt the same way about about the George W. Bush administration.

In World War II Japan, it was actually a crime to be unpatriotic. While their enforcement methods may have been a little harsh, I strongly agree with the idea in principle. I do happen to agree with the My Country, Right or Wrong platitude. It’s like people who say “I don’t like the war, but I fully support the troops fighting it.”

You should love your country no matter what.
 
Hi Bradski.

I don’t see love of country as necessary from a personal point of view either, but if the Church teaches that it is indeed a duty, then I obviously have it wrong, and need to address that. I realise that the Church will be right, and I will be wrong - I just need to know what my duty is, and then to discover why the Church is right, rather than entrench myself in my own error.

As for supporting a foreign power against your own native land, I have to say, had I been alive during the Elizabethan era (I’m English) I certainly would have supported the Spanish invasion of England to liberate the native Catholics, and restore the true faith. It was claimed at the time that a good Catholic was a bad Englishman - if they had been talking about me, they’d have had that exactly right.

Thanks for the reply.
As would have I. Or, at least, I hope I would have had the nerve to. I owe my allegiance to the powers spiritual over against the powers temporal, especially if the powers temporal are doing all in their power to kill the spiritual. In any case, I believe treason is much less cut-and-dry, from a purely moral point of view, than from a legal one. From a legal point of view, treason is merely the rebellion against a man or organization in a place of authority above yours that society has granted him or it: petty treason is, for example, the rebellion against or murder of a lord by his serf, or a husband by his wife; high treason differs only in degree, and is rebellion against the sovereign or ruling body of a (pan-)tribal organization (nation) by the lord and the serf put together, and the husband and the wife holding hands and walking in lock-step.

And then, the characters of rebellion or high treason in monarchy (divine right) and fundamentally different than those against republicanism (“will of the people”); and there are many variables, of policy, corruption, etc., etc.; but there is no doubt that, as we are obliged to submit to lawful authority, lawful authority can overstep its bounds, and become no authority at all (as when the Pope released all of Elizabeth’s subjects from de jure fealty or allegiance to her by excommunicating her).

Even though it’s not a religious document (except to Mormons), the Declaration of Independenc of the United States specifically provides for “lawful treason”: “That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

Several strands of natural law theory provide for the “right to revolution”, although I can think of no example in history when it has been used to good effect; it is a confused and tangled subject, due to the emotion involved from the modern nationalistic feeling imposed.
 
I think some people confuse loving their country with loving their government or government leaders. Frankly, I cannot stand the Obama government that is in power right now, but I still feel a great affection for the good ol’ U. S. of A. I’m sure some people felt the same way about about the George W. Bush administration.

In World War II Japan, it was actually a crime to be unpatriotic. While their enforcement methods may have been a little harsh, I strongly agree with the idea in principle. I do happen to agree with the My Country, Right or Wrong platitude. It’s like people who say “I don’t like the war, but I fully support the troops fighting it.”

You should love your country no matter what.
That is flawed. Should Soviets have loved their country, as religion was being exterminated at gunpoint? Or Nazis, as Hitler was gassing the Jews? Oh, but you say, those were not legitimate countries - why not? What makes a country legitimate? “I don’t support the holocaust, but I support the personnel carrying it out?”

There are just wars, and there are unjust wars, and that wasn’t even a war, so perhaps the analogy is completely invalid. Digressing, I have found that men who say, “I hate the war, but love the troops”, etc., actually hate the war and have nothing but disdain for the troops, and use it as a cop-out. But, if the war is just, one must needs support both; if it isn’t, one must needs support neither.

If they had won the war, they’d be legitimate countries. As were they according to all international customary law on sovereignty during their existence.
 
I believe this means recognize the authorities God has put into place on Earth.
Whether you choose your words poorly or not, that sentence illustrates the need for precision of thought and speech, for, as written, it comes dangerously close to supporting (or at least being able to be used to support) Divine Right (of Kings, Princes, whatever) and Caesaropapism.
 
Nationalism seems to me - and nationalism, used as this, is exaggerated patriotism, of the sort where some make of it a religion - is the cult of the nation, worshipping the nation instead of God Almighty. No one country is inherently superior to another; cultures can be inferior or superior; economies can be inferior or superior; actions in history can be, as well; but, an Egyptian is no better than a Saudi, based on the country he lives in, nor is a Dane better than a Swede, nor a Frenchman better than a Dutchman, nor an American better than a European.

Hillaire Belloc wrote about this tangentially, but intensively, over the course of his popular history book, “Characters of the Reformation”, which contains, scattered throughout its pages, the best critique of nationalism I’ve ever read. Honestly.

Who was it that said, “We should love and respect our cultures [not countries] as a mother, as one who gave us birth according to the flesh, but when we enter the Church, we are born again according to the Spirit, and realize that it knows better for us than our native culture” - or something like that, I didn’t capture the poetry of the original.

No, there is no obligation to love one’s country, only the Church. One should dislike the bad about one’s country, and like the good: but to view one’s country, or any other, in black and white, as “America the Great, and Europe the Socialist Trash”, is incorrect.
Hi Khalid.

Thank you very much for your answers - I agree with everything you say. I guess that there is no requirement, then, and I have been somewhat misled. Perhaps there was some confusion between what the Church teaches, and what various groups within the Church teach. I know, for instance, that the Knights of Our Lady stipulate that its members must love their respective countries etc.

Thanks again.
 
Yes I am a “trad”. I love the EF. It is solemn, it is beautiful and full of grandeur. I am discerning a vocation with some very traditional minded groups for e.g. FSSP, Institute of CHRIST THE KING, Franciscans of the Immaculate, Knights of the HOLY EUCHARIST etc. I also do love the NO, epsecially when its celebrated VERY reverently. It can be a very, very, very beautiful MASS.
Deo Gratias!

One of the churches where I assist at Mass have just had their three primary servers all leave for Nebraska to train with the FSSP on the same day. They’re now short of servers, but utterly delighted by the seminarians they now have to support!

Please send me a message with your name so I can pray for your vocation.

Many blessings on you, my friend.
 
I think some people confuse loving their country with loving their government or government leaders. Frankly, I cannot stand the Obama government that is in power right now, but I still feel a great affection for the good ol’ U. S. of A. I’m sure some people felt the same way about about the George W. Bush administration.

In World War II Japan, it was actually a crime to be unpatriotic. While their enforcement methods may have been a little harsh, I strongly agree with the idea in principle. I do happen to agree with the My Country, Right or Wrong platitude. It’s like people who say “I don’t like the war, but I fully support the troops fighting it.”

You should love your country no matter what.
Wow! You are a ‘lost sheep’ if you believe that!

I do agree with you about the confusion of loving country with support of current government etc.

Thanks for your answer.
 
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