Do we have to believe this V2 document?

[NorthTexan88]

I have had a lot of V2 questions lately bc I have started reading the documents of V2 to educate myself more and I’m having trouble accepting the document Nostra Aetate. So far frm what I have read my conscience is saying no. So did V2 make this dogma? Between that and the Assisi meetings I’m starting to think this interreligious stuff is a bunch of croc…is that bad?

P.S I know V2 was a valid council so please Dnt bash it

 

[cjmclark]

I have had a lot of V2 questions lately bc I have started reading the documents of V2 to educate myself more and I’m having trouble accepting the document Nostra Aetate. So far frm what I have read my conscience is saying no. So did V2 make this dogma? Between that and the Assisi meetings I’m starting to think this interreligious stuff is a bunch of croc…is that bad?

P.S I know V2 was a valid council so please Dnt bash it

The short answer? Yes.

Cardinal Koch talks here about how Nostra Aetate is binding on all Catholics.

Out of curiosity, what issues do you have with Nostra Aetate? A lot of people have issues with it because they think it elevates other religions to a status of equal validity with Christianity, which isn’t true. Rather, it recognizes that as man is created by God, so do elements of God’s Truth appears in many religions as creations of man. It makes special mention of Islam as recognizing the God of Abraham as the one true God, and specifically discusses the importance of Judaism as the precursor to Christianity. But all of that =/= all other religions being of equal validity as the Church.

 

[triumphguy]

I have had a lot of V2 questions lately bc I have started reading the documents of V2 to educate myself more and I’m having trouble accepting the document Nostra Aetate. So far frm what I have read my conscience is saying no. So did V2 make this dogma? Between that and the Assisi meetings I’m starting to think this interreligious stuff is a bunch of croc…is that bad?

P.S I know V2 was a valid council so please Dnt bash it

Yes, it is binding on all Catholics
cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=31359&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+cathnews%2FRSS+%28CathNews%29

The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men.

Nothing very scary to read here is there?

 

[GratefulFred]

Nostra Aetate was published more than 46 years ago. It is fairly short and well footnoted to the Bible. Here are important (IMHO) excerpts:

God made the whole human race . . . His saving design extend to all men . . .
The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. . . . [Unstated is rejection of what is NOT true and holy.]

Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ is “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.* [Underline is mine]*

Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.* [understanding is not the same as presuming equality of thinking]*

We cannot truly call on God, the Father of all, if we refuse to treat in a brotherly way any man, created as he is in the image of God. Man’s relation to God the Father and his relation to men his brothers are so linked together that Scripture says: “He who does not love does not know God” (1 John 4:8).

The Church reproves, as foreign to the mind of Christ, any discrimination against men or harassment of them because of their race, color, condition of life, or religion. On the contrary, following in the footsteps of the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, this sacred synod ardently implores the Christian faithful to “maintain good fellowship among the nations” (1 Peter 2:12), and, if possible, to live for their part in peace with all men, so that they may truly be sons of the Father who is in heaven.

All this reads as solid Catholic teaching to my eyes.

 

[1ke]

And JPII’s Dominus Iesus reinforces church teaching.

 

[NorthTexan88]

The short answer? Yes.

Cardinal Koch talks here about how Nostra Aetate is binding on all Catholics.

Out of curiosity, what issues do you have with Nostra Aetate? A lot of people have issues with it because they think it elevates other religions to a status of equal validity with Christianity, which isn’t true. Rather, it recognizes that as man is created by God, so do elements of God’s Truth appears in many religions as creations of man. It makes special mention of Islam as recognizing the God of Abraham as the one true God, and specifically discusses the importance of Judaism as the precursor to Christianity. But all of that =/= all other religions being of equal validity as the Church.

Thanks for all of the help everyone!

Yea admittingly this is what I was thinking, I was actaully told that I should have read Lumen Gentium first because I covers this.
I think I just had such a mental block about it for two reasons.

1. While growing up Protestant I was always taught that only Christians, and (possibly ) Jews can go to Heaven and that other religions were false so there was no need to be “ecumenical” with them, only try and convert them.
2. I know this has been talked about on CAF before but prior to reading the documents I started to read about the Assisi councils…that was enough to scare me away right there. So I basically did the same thing as watching Jaws and then taking a big swim in the ocean

I think that whenever it comes to V2 I subconciously am a little leary about it given what has happened in the Church the last 50 years…THE GATES OF HELL WILL NEVER PREVAIL! thats what I have to keep telling myself

 

[NorthTexan88]

Nostra Aetate was published more than 46 years ago. It is fairly short and well footnoted to the Bible. Here are important (IMHO) excerpts:

God made the whole human race . . . His saving design extend to all men . . .
The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. . . . [Unstated is rejection of what is NOT true and holy.]

Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ is “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.* [Underline is mine]*

Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.* [understanding is not the same as presuming equality of thinking]*

We cannot truly call on God, the Father of all, if we refuse to treat in a brotherly way any man, created as he is in the image of God. Man’s relation to God the Father and his relation to men his brothers are so linked together that Scripture says: “He who does not love does not know God” (1 John 4:8).

The Church reproves, as foreign to the mind of Christ, any discrimination against men or harassment of them because of their race, color, condition of life, or religion. On the contrary, following in the footsteps of the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, this sacred synod ardently implores the Christian faithful to “maintain good fellowship among the nations” (1 Peter 2:12), and, if possible, to live for their part in peace with all men, so that they may truly be sons of the Father who is in heaven.

All this reads as solid Catholic teaching to my eyes.

Thank you GratefulFred, this was very much appreciated

 

[NorthTexan88]

Just out of curiosity, what was the Church’s teachings on other religions before V2? I havent done much research on anything prior. Is it the same or has it changed or just become more clear? If anyone could provide links for me to read that would be awesome.

 

[benjohnson]

V2 … in the Church the last 50 years

From an outsider’s point of view, it does look like V II was the proximate cause of a lot of problems in the Catholic Church. It certainly appears that the time-frame matches up.

However, I think when you look at the details, it’s hard to point out where V II directly lead to those problems - upon looking at history, those problems were probably going to happen anyways.

Again, from an outsiders point of view, there’s certain aspects of V II that seem quite good - the CCC for one of them. And the open arms that the Church has extended to Protestants/Evangelicals fleeing wrong theology is another.
…

Back to the subject:

From a my Lutheran perspective, the document you are having trouble with seems troubling on first reaction - it’s almost like you’re having to give up some of your own faith in order to recognize the faiths of others has having some aspect truth to them.

But on reflection, the charity that the document proscribes is beneficial for all - not only does it improve relations, but it opens up opportunities for us to welcome others into our faith.

In my opinion, this won’t be a two way street: The christian church will prevail. If we are true to God, we have nothing to fear from relations with others.

 

[GratefulFred]

You are welcome North Texan 88. I have not researched pre V II, but the BIBLE has not changed and it is the BIBLE that is always used to support Church teaching. However, I suspect that, depending on the times, some teachings are in the forefront while others are not. And some days we simply skipped school and missed the teaching.

V2 … in the Church the last 50 years

As humans usually in a hurry, we too often read something too quickly and in our hurriedness (word?) settle on a conclusion without much reflection on the details. Often such rapid conclusions tend to be unreliable.

Christ calls us to LOVE one another, especially our enemies. We are required to avoid hating one another even when, for safety’s sake, we have to defeat them in war, jail them, get restraining orders, vote against them, etc. IF possible, we are to live in peace with those who disagree with us.

A peaceful approach is to realize that the other is NOT all bad. We must first try to understand what the other is all about. With that understanding, we can usually identify points where we do agree. Acknowledging those points of agreement, few though they may be, goes a long way to preserving the peace.

While peace prevails, for points of disagreement, many and serious though they may be, it is usually wise to continue the dialogue indefinitely. It tends to maintain Hope on both sides.

Just as the Christian Faith has been misused by some to start wars, so too have other faiths been misused. We should understand that it may be necessary to go after the abusers WITHOUT condemning all in that faith tradition.

 

[mardukm]

Just out of curiosity, what was the Church’s teachings on other religions before V2? I havent done much research on anything prior. Is it the same or has it changed or just become more clear? If anyone could provide links for me to read that would be awesome.

The Fathers of the early Church generally recognized that God worked through all the religions before Christianity came about. What is good in them comes from God, though man himself and the fallen angels have corrupted these religions. They considered Christianity to be the fulfillment or perfection of all the religions, because it was/is God’s direct revelation of Himself.

As others have noted, Notra Aetate does not make all religions equal - it only exhorts us to recognize and respect what is objectively good in them.

Blessings,
Marduk