Do We Have to Sing Along During Mass?

[Cat]

I would like to raise an issue that I don’t believe is elsewhere in the thread. If it is, please forgive me for repeating. I’ve had a hard time getting through this thread. It’s very discouraging.

I plead with you all to think of the children.

Many parents bring their children to Mass, and try to train their children up to participate in the Mass. For many parents, that means submitting to the parish priest, and actually doing the work of the people, which in most OF Masses, is to join in with the hymns whenever possible.

When a child sees another adult not singing, it gives that child an excuse to not sing, and that opens a door to rebellions and disobedience, and in some cases, eventual frustration with the Church and finally, attrition.

Don’t give a child an excuse to disobey their parents or their priest.

It’s very hard for the parents to try to explain why people aren’t singing in the Mass. I would probably tell my child that the adult “didn’t feel well,” and little ones would accept this and pity the non-singer for their illness.

But older children and teenagers will shake their heads and say, “Yeah, right, Mom. That person just decided on their own that they don’t want to sing, and that’s exactly what I’m doing.”

And what are the parents to say to that?

I think we always need to be aware that other people are watching us, and many of these people do not possess the knowledge, wisdom, and spirituality to make a correct decision about their behavior during Mass. They need to learn to submit and obey–that is our first responsibility as Christians, and one that the Lord will always bless.

But when other people open the door a crack and demonstrate by their behavior that it is NOT necessary to submit and obey to the Church authorities, it is confusing for those who are not yet mature, and it can lead to doubt, frustration, and as I said above, eventual attrition.

Think about others, not yourselves. For the sake of others, sing the songs when you are able. And if you are not able, at least present the appearance of worshipping and praying.

 

[Phemie]

There does seem to be a sub-text that because the “hymn sandwich” is not required then participation is not required. The first part is correct - the hymns are not required. This has been pointed out a number of times in these forums. It’s also not well known - I didn’t know it until I discovered it here. However, the inference that participation is not required is incorrect. If hymns are present, then the congregation should attempt to participate, as stated in the GIRM.

OTOH, the GIRM allows for the Opening Chant, the Gloira, the Offertory Chant & the Communion Chant to be sung by the choir alone – which is why Palestrina et al can still legitimately be sung during Mass.

We are expected to sing the responses & acclamations.

 

[YoungTradCath]

OTOH, the GIRM allows for the Opening Chant, the Gloira, the Offertory Chant & the Communion Chant to be sung by the choir alone – which is why Palestrina et al can still legitimately be sung during Mass.

We are expected to sing the responses & acclamations.

In fact, the Propers are even “preferred,” whatever that means.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

There is more cheer in a graveyard than with you guys.

-Tim-

Thanks for the much needed chuckle this morning.

As a much younger adult I took a non-Christian friend to Midnight Mass. Christmas, right? The hap-happiest time of the year, and all of that?

As we were leaving she asked me if Christmas marked Christ’s birth or death. Birth, I reminded her. Then why did everyone act like they were at a funeral, she wanted to know. I didn’t have a good answer except to tell her that we’re a somewhat dour folk.

Luna

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

Unless a person has a legitimate physical problem which prevents them from singing, refusing to sing based on the old “I have a bad voice” excuse is pure vanity.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

When a child sees another adult not singing, it gives that child an excuse to not sing, and that opens a door to rebellions and disobedience, and in some cases, eventual frustration with the Church and finally, attrition.

Don’t give a child an excuse to disobey their parents or their priest.

It’s very hard for the parents to try to explain why people aren’t singing in the Mass. I would probably tell my child that the adult “didn’t feel well,” and little ones would accept this and pity the non-singer for their illness.

But older children and teenagers will shake their heads and say, “Yeah, right, Mom. That person just decided on their own that they don’t want to sing, and that’s exactly what I’m doing.”

I understand what you are saying, but trust me, that teenager is not rebelling because he sees people in Mass not singing. There’s more going on than just that. In fact, I seriously doubt that most teenagers, as self-centered as they are, are even paying any attention to other people around them in Mass. I know when my son checked out of Mass, it was due to his heart being shut down, not that people weren’t singing. He stopped singing when he was self-conscious about his voice breaking, and later, he stopped coming to Mass entirely when he was engaged in mortally sinful sexual activity with his GF. That had nothing to do with singing.

I am 100% sure that anything he did in Mass had nothing to do with the rest of the congregation. It was his own process. And I would bet the teens who are going through rebellion would say the same.

 

[superamazingman]

I would like to raise an issue that I don’t believe is elsewhere in the thread. If it is, please forgive me for repeating. I’ve had a hard time getting through this thread. It’s very discouraging.

I plead with you all to think of the children.

Many parents bring their children to Mass, and try to train their children up to participate in the Mass. For many parents, that means submitting to the parish priest, and actually doing the work of the people, which in most OF Masses, is to join in with the hymns whenever possible.

When a child sees another adult not singing, it gives that child an excuse to not sing, and that opens a door to rebellions and disobedience, and in some cases, eventual frustration with the Church and finally, attrition.

Don’t give a child an excuse to disobey their parents or their priest.

It’s very hard for the parents to try to explain why people aren’t singing in the Mass. I would probably tell my child that the adult “didn’t feel well,” and little ones would accept this and pity the non-singer for their illness.

But older children and teenagers will shake their heads and say, “Yeah, right, Mom. That person just decided on their own that they don’t want to sing, and that’s exactly what I’m doing.”

And what are the parents to say to that?

I think we always need to be aware that other people are watching us, and many of these people do not possess the knowledge, wisdom, and spirituality to make a correct decision about their behavior during Mass. They need to learn to submit and obey–that is our first responsibility as Christians, and one that the Lord will always bless.

But when other people open the door a crack and demonstrate by their behavior that it is NOT necessary to submit and obey to the Church authorities, it is confusing for those who are not yet mature, and it can lead to doubt, frustration, and as I said above, eventual attrition.

Think about others, not yourselves. For the sake of others, sing the songs when you are able. And if you are not able, at least present the appearance of worshipping and praying.

There would be no disobedience, since there is no obligation to sing. I don’t understand your post.

If there was an obligation to sing, then yes, they would be disobeying by not singing. But as it is, there is no obligation.

 

[triumphguy]

In your mind is there an obligation to make any verbal response at all during mass?

 

[nickybr38]

Okay guys… I gotta say it.

I love to sing.

I sing loud.
I sing joyfully.
I belt it out.

And often when I’m not in the choir and instead in the pews it feels REALLY AWKWARD when I’m belting it out and the people around me are silent. So, please, so I don’t have to feel uncomfortable… sing.

Okay, kidding. Really if you just don’t like singing then don’t. But don’t sing because you’re not good! Sing because you don’t like singing and the Lord is calling you to other means of worship.

 

[SeekNFind]

I love singing and wish more people did. However, I had a bad experience. . .There is a woman I encountered twice who attends the National Shrine in DC who thinks she is onstage! She sings quite loudly–opera style with much vibrato. She even out-sings the poor cantors. I have come to the conclusion that she probably has a mental disorder and that’s the reason she is singing that way. I was the lucky person she sat behind in Mass and I couldn’t concentrate on the Liturgy. I almost moved but it wouldn’t have helped because her voice dominates the entire church. Just the thought makes me shudder. Thank goodness that’s not my church home Someone should say something to her.

 

[liturgyluver]

I came to the Catholic Church from the Anglican Church, where singing is always fulsome, and I too was puzzled and offended by the “stony faces” who left the singing to a small few (including me), who weren’t sure whether we were doing the right thing or not.

Nevertheless, I kept singing, with good hymns and bad hymns, for 30 years. Last year I joined the Church choir. Our parish now sings a very good setting of the liturgy and some very good hymns, and about 50% of the people join in. It feels like the end of a drought.

Recently we sang “Be Thou My Vision”, which is one of my all time favourites. I’ll try and suggest “Come Down, Oh Love Divine”. Then I will feel that it has all been worth waiting for!

It’s very inspiring to read these success stories that buck the trend. Well done - part of me thinks there might be great value in sharing these practical examples more,formally so we can learn and implement. Anything to break those miserable stony faces!

 

[nickybr38]

I love singing and wish more people did. However, I had a bad experience. . .There is a woman I encountered twice who attends the National Shrine in DC who thinks she is onstage! She sings quite loudly–opera style with much vibrato. She even out-sings the poor cantors. I have come to the conclusion that she probably has a mental disorder and that’s the reason she is singing that way. I was the lucky person she sat behind in Mass and I couldn’t concentrate on the Liturgy. I almost moved but it wouldn’t have helped because her voice dominates the entire church. Just the thought makes me shudder. Thank goodness that’s not my church home Someone should say something to her.

But is she on key and singing correctly?

This sort of thing wouldn’t bother me. I love music, even one voice that rises above the others.

One time I was sitting in front of a woman who randomly decided to start harmonizing with me!!! IT was such a joy. Maybe you could start harmonizing with your opera singer?

 

[ProVobis]

But is she on key and singing correctly?

This sort of thing wouldn’t bother me. I love music, even one voice that rises above the others.

One time I was sitting in front of a woman who randomly decided to start harmonizing with me!!! IT was such a joy. Maybe you could start harmonizing with your opera singer?

Do you really think that would go over well in an opera hall if everyone were to start singing along with the opera stars?

Many people don’t even sing the National Anthem if they already have a guest singer.

Unless you’re at a Chicago Blackhawk game where they shout and scream instead of sing.

 

[Edmundus1581]

It’s very inspiring to read these success stories that buck the trend. Well done - part of me thinks there might be great value in sharing these practical examples more,formally so we can learn and implement. Anything to break those miserable stony faces!

Thankyou for the kind words, liturgylover!

It’s all in God’s hands. He likes good liturgies too! If we persevere - most of all by participating ourselves, and making our own small contributions - His Will will be done, eventually.

 

[nickybr38]

Do you really think that would go over well in an opera hall if everyone were to start singing along with the opera stars?

Many people don’t even sing the National Anthem if they already have a guest singer.

Unless you’re at a Chicago Blackhawk game where they shout and scream instead of sing.

Haha! But at Mass you aren’t AT an Opera hall so you can go for it.

 

[SeekNFind]

But is she on key and singing correctly?

This sort of thing wouldn’t bother me. I love music, even one voice that rises above the others.

One time I was sitting in front of a woman who randomly decided to start harmonizing with me!!! IT was such a joy. Maybe you could start harmonizing with your opera singer?

Yes, on key but LOUD and over the top. Trust me, it would bother you. Several people kept turning their heads around to see who was singing so loudly. Her singing was definitely a distraction to multiple people and isn’t acceptable IMO.

 

[Cat]

There would be no disobedience, since there is no obligation to sing. I don’t understand your post.

If there was an obligation to sing, then yes, they would be disobeying by not singing. But as it is, there is no obligation.

I’m referring to obeying parents who have certain expectations of a child during Mass.

During church, my husband and I expected our daughters, from the age of 3, to hold up their hymnals and sing, or at least make an attempt to sing.

Often we would stand them up on the pew, help them hold the hymnal, and sing with them, not necessarily in their ear, but close enough so that they could hear the melody and learn it.

We would not have been pleased if our daughters just stood there and didn’t open the hymnal and/or their mouths during the congregational singing.

But because we trained them to sing from the time they were babies, they never even dreamed of going against our expectations.

To this day, when we are all together in a Mass, ALL of us, all four, sing out strong, usually each family member on a different part. Usually people turn around to see who is doing the singing, and they smile and enjoy themselves.

And please don’t think that we do this to gain the applause of men, or to show off, or because we think we’re divas or opera-wannabes. Ridiculous. We just love to sing, especially songs of worship to God.

In fact, when we are at home, we will often gather around the piano and sing just for fun. It’s one of the things I miss about being an empty nester–not having my daughters singing. OTOH, I play piano for several choirs, which I consider my “children,” even though they are all my age or older!

Both of my daughters cantor willingly when given the opportunity (even though my younger daughter isn’t Catholic). They don’t do it to show off. They do it as a service to the Lord and to His people.

 

[littlenothing]

Unless a person has a legitimate physical problem which prevents them from singing, refusing to sing based on the old “I have a bad voice” excuse is pure vanity.

It might be vanity, but it might also be anxiety or something else. I usually just skip the very high notes because I can’t sing that high. “You guard me from the foe” is just too high to reach, and why strain my voice to try?

Some of those 1980s songs that are syncopated are also hard for some to sing. The congregation has to follow those who can do it. When too many people who can’t get the rhythm are singing it can be cacophonous in a smaller group.

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

Well, since we’re not trying to be cheerful, but just talk about ‘rules’, here’s what the GIRM (‘General Instruction on the Roman Missal’) says:

“96. Moreover, [the faithful] are to form one body, whether in hearing the Word of God, or in taking part in the prayers and in the singing, or above all by the common offering of the Sacrifice and by participating together at the Lord’s table. This unity is beautifully apparent from the gestures and bodily postures observed together by the faithful.”

So, I think that it’s fair to say that the GIRM envisions that the congregation will be praying and singing. However, that’s not to say that it mandates it, per se.

Thank you Gorgias, for sharing the Roman Missal instructions.
Very helpful!:angel1:
:heaven::grouphug:Kathryn Ann:heaven::harp::grouphug:

 

[Edmundus1581]

It might be vanity, but it might also be anxiety or something else. I usually just skip the very high notes because I can’t sing that high. “You guard me from the foe” is just too high to reach, and why strain my voice to try?

**Some of those 1980s songs that are syncopated are also hard for some to sing. **The congregation has to follow those who can do it. When too many people who can’t get the rhythm are singing it can be cacophonous in a smaller group.

I think they are meant to be that way! Whenever I’ve finally picked up the rhythm, it changes suddenly! Even our youth choir can’t get it right. I’ve been SOOO embarassed when I’ve started singing a line, only to find that I’m singing on a rest.

The music ministry also has an obligation to pick songs that people can sing, without being stretched too high or low, or stranded in a confusing melody or rhythm.

I don’t think that any of us here who are advocating singing are expecting everyone to sing loud enough to be heard (much), especially if they are self conscious of their voices or just can’t pick the tune. We would like everyone to attempt to sing out, but understand that some are too self-conscious. What we are asking is that in their gestures they show some attempt at participating, rather than those dreadful “stony faces”.