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Maryanna
Guest
There is nothing fake about the holy Shroud of Turin.
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Cruciferi
Guest
I agree. It’s legitimate in my opinion. It’s also how Jesus would have appeared. Very Jim Caviezel in appearance. I don’t find the BBC’s version realistic. To me, that picture resembles Peter.
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Shakuhachi
Guest
How do you know what Peter looked like and why would he be so different from Jesus?
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FrDavid96
Guest
Both excellent points!
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buffalo
Guest
Divine Mercy and Shroud of Turin
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phil19034
Guest
Well, Peter moved to Rome where there were a handful of rich Christians.
A few of them commissioned art pieces. This sarcophagus below was commissioned by one of those rich Christians in the 300s AD, and depicts many scenes of Christ, with Peter looking over Christ’s shoulder. Peter is in all scenes.
What’s interesting is that Peter has short hair and a beard, while Jesus has a youthful look, with long hair. Dr. Tim Gray, President of the Augustine Institute talks about this piece at length in his Lectio: Peter study on FORMED.org
https://formed.org/study/54f4cf6665f211981622a77f/lesson/54f4c76d65f211981622a767
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Point is - because Peter was in Rome and lived longer, his image was most likely captured much more during his lifetime, esp after his death in Rome.
The Romans were very into capturing the likeness of a person (esp the Emperor) in stone. No one was permitted to create another likeness of the Emperor. So it’s likely that the Romans treated Peter in a similar manner, esp since they actually saw him and knew what he looked like.
And Jesus in these scenes has long, curly hair… again… this is from the 300s AD***
NOTE: what we don’t know is if Jesus’s hair was actually long hair or if he had a Jewish Payot - but it does show Christ has clean shaven (which could either have been artistic licencing or perhaps He really did shave).
One argument for Christ having long hair and a shaven was just one additional way to “sticki it” to the Pharisees.
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FrDavid96
Guest
It is still 300 years after the fact.Well, Peter moved to Rome where there were a handful of rich Christians.
A few of them commissioned art pieces. This sarcophagus below was commissioned by one of those rich Christians in the 300s AD, and depicts many scenes of Christ, with Peter looking over Christ’s shoulder. Peter is in all scenes.
What’s interesting is that Peter has short hair and a beard, while Jesus has a youthful look, with long hair. Dr. Tim Gray, President of the Augustine Institute talks about this piece at length in his Lectio: Peter study on FORMED.org
Point is - because Peter was in Rome and lived longer, his image was most likely captured much more during his lifetime, esp after his death in Rome.
The Romans were very into capturing the likeness of a person (esp the Emperor) in stone. No one was permitted to create another likeness of the Emperor. So it’s likely that the Romans treated Peter in a similar manner, esp since they actually saw him and knew what he looked like.
And Jesus in these scenes has long, curly hair… again… this is from the 300s AD***
NOTE: what we don’t know is if Jesus’s hair was actually long hair or if he had a Jewish Payot - but it does show Christ has clean shaven (which could either have been artistic licencing or perhaps He really did shave).
One argument for Christ having long hair and a shaven was just one additional way to “sticki it” to the Pharisees.
Information such as “Peter had a beard and it had a certain shape” is based more on how he was represented in art much more than it is based on any historic evidence as such. We can say that the oral tradition about Peter is probably accurate but at the same time we can’t take that too far.
Tradition tells us that Peter was much older than Christ, so it makes sense that he always looks older in Christian art. There’s little interest in Peter when he was age 20. Artists usually depict him about a generation older than Christ because that’s the period of his life that if of interest to us.
It’s nearly a given (maybe a complete given) that Christ had a beard. All Jewish men had beards at that time. The Egyptians were noteworthy for being smooth-shaven. So were the Romans, although that varied by certain circumstances.
Shaving required a razor and a barber at that time period. So in one sense, the smooth-shaven Romans were considered decadent.
Given the obvious Jewish preference for beards and the un-likelihood that he would have spent time and money at a barber, it’s safe to say Christ kept a beard.
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phil19034
Guest
thanks Fatherphil19034:
It is still 300 years after the fact.Well, Peter moved to Rome where there were a handful of rich Christians.
A few of them commissioned art pieces. This sarcophagus below was commissioned by one of those rich Christians in the 300s AD, and depicts many scenes of Christ, with Peter looking over Christ’s shoulder. Peter is in all scenes.
What’s interesting is that Peter has short hair and a beard, while Jesus has a youthful look, with long hair. Dr. Tim Gray, President of the Augustine Institute talks about this piece at length in his Lectio: Peter study on FORMED.org
Point is - because Peter was in Rome and lived longer, his image was most likely captured much more during his lifetime, esp after his death in Rome.
The Romans were very into capturing the likeness of a person (esp the Emperor) in stone. No one was permitted to create another likeness of the Emperor. So it’s likely that the Romans treated Peter in a similar manner, esp since they actually saw him and knew what he looked like.
And Jesus in these scenes has long, curly hair… again… this is from the 300s AD***
NOTE: what we don’t know is if Jesus’s hair was actually long hair or if he had a Jewish Payot - but it does show Christ has clean shaven (which could either have been artistic licencing or perhaps He really did shave).
One argument for Christ having long hair and a shaven was just one additional way to “sticki it” to the Pharisees.
Information such as “Peter had a beard and it had a certain shape” is based more on how he was represented in art much more than it is based on any historic evidence as such. We can say that the oral tradition about Peter is probably accurate but at the same time we can’t take that too far.
Tradition tells us that Peter was much older than Christ, so it makes sense that he always looks older in Christian art. There’s little interest in Peter when he was age 20. Artists usually depict him about a generation older than Christ because that’s the period of his life that if of interest to us.
It’s nearly a given (maybe a complete given) that Christ had a beard. All Jewish men had beards at that time. The Egyptians were noteworthy for being smooth-shaven. So were the Romans, although that varied by certain circumstances.
Shaving required a razor and a barber at that time period. So in one sense, the smooth-shaven Romans were considered decadent.
Given the obvious Jewish preference for beards and the un-likelihood that he would have spent time and money at a barber, it’s safe to say Christ kept a beard.
to be clear - I was not suggesting that Jesus was clean shaven, I was just pointing out that the idea that he had long hair and was clean shaven was not a middle ages invention like someone previously claimed.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
When Jesus was alive, He was seen as nothing more than a nuisance/outcast to the elite. The Jews had to rile up Pontius Pilate to get Him executed.
People like that don’t get portraits in their lives.
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De_Maria
Guest
On the contrary, the evidence is clear:
So, that is actual blood, not paint, on the Shroud.
And the plants found on the Shroud, are from Jerusalem.
So, the 15th century European artist went to a lot of trouble to make this authentic. He killed a man and painted his blood on the Shroud. Then collected flowers from Jerusalem and covered the Shroud in them.
Not only that, but the 15th century artist used a technique that was never used before, or since.
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buffalo
Guest
The Shroud of Turin: Detailed Analysis - a must see - details never seen before -
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buffalo
Guest
Isabel Piczek - Why the Shroud of Turin Cannot Be A Painting
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Reuben_J
Guest
There is no potrait of him available today. He is nevertheless a historical person. I am guessing that he must be physically strong thirty three year old and maybe mascular. He was a carpenter not the ruling elite. He has to be, to be able to carry the wood of the cross to Calvary despite had undergone torture and beating. My poor Savior.
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theCardinalbird
Guest
I feel like the selfy one is disrespectful. What do you think?
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theCardinalbird
Guest
Children need a mother and a father. A mother can do things a father can’t do. And a father can do things a mother can’t do. No one should loose the right of a mother and/or father.
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Zaccheus
Guest
I Liked it myself.
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buffalo
Guest
Amazing that he was buried with the nails still in his hands…
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I truly hope this does not mean that if someone depicts a German/ Scandinavian Christ with blue eyes they are automatically assumed to have some racist agenda. To be honest, I do not see these types of depictions very often; the Christs I see in religious art (at least from the last half of the 20th century as opposed to early 1900s and before) typically have dark hair and eyes and often have swarthy skin as well.
I posted a blue-eyed Christ in the “favorite Jesus” images thread because it was so unusual in its use of color and I almost never see a Christ with bright blue eyes. Not because I was sitting there thinking, "aha, Christ in real life must have had blue eyes! "
I’m beginning to think maybe it’s best to just keep one’s thoughts about what Christ looked like to oneself (along with about 1 million other things prone to misinterpretation nowadays) and focus on seeing Him in other people. If Christ were to appear to me tomorrow and I drew a picture of him, I’d probably get called out on it unless he looked exactly like some scientific BBC depiction.
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BartholomewB
Guest
The only people in antiquity whose physical appearance is known to us, at least approximately, are those whose faces were shown on coins (Matt 22:20 and parallels) or who sat as models for sculptors (including burial masks) or who had statues erected in their honor in their lifetime or shortly after. How many paintings or drawings have survived of known, identifiable individuals earlier than, say, the reign of Constantine? Very few, I think – possibly one or two murals that were preserved under the volcanic ash at Herculaneum and Pompeii, but surely not many else.
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alice24
Guest
We have -historically - the following sources:
-roman image and scriptural sources showing/ talking about hairstyle. The roman citizen wore his hair mainly short in this time, BUT especially in the far away provinces this was not always the case. We now this happened because of mosaics, coptic mummy paintings and letters about the “strange fashion sense in the province”.
Then we have sources for the costume history of different areas in the near east, with huuuuge plurality of fashion styles. I genral, beards were a status symbol, eyeliner was very common for men and women because of medical and beauty reasons. There is archaeologic evidence for hair oil pots, beard care tools and kajal colour pots in the whole egypt, mediterranian and middle east area.
At least we know that many religious groups marked themself with long hair for an ascetic lifestyle. We have description of this in many scriptures. So a long beard and long hair could be possible for Jesus, too.
To the depiction:
It´s interesting that the image of the long haired jesus which is so popular today has it´s foundation mainly in the depiction tradition of the migration era. The nobility in the late antiquity wore long hair and beards as a sign of their class. It was easier for them to accept christ with him depicted with the “common” visual signs of glory.
I like the different images so much. Interesting are also the images of Holy Mary. I recently saw an album of litte chinese prints of Holy Mary in traditional Han-Dynasty clothing and chinese-looking facial features. It´s lovely how all humans can see the grace within
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