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philipanthonyxavier
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Thank you Edmundus1581! I am so glad to hear it!
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CRV
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Agree wholeheartedly.
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philipanthonyxavier
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Very good point. I have also seen some sources that connected the Coronation with the moment in Revelation 12:1 that says. “A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.” You could certainly argue that many of the existing mysteries have echos of the future, or at least foreshadow future events. Thanks for your insight.
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philipanthonyxavier
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So, I respectfully have an alternative viewpoint to this. I think your argument is correct, but incomplete. Jesus and Mary are involved in the current mysteries, but I would argue that all of the existing mysteries really have three viewpoints: that of 1) Jesus, 2) Mary, and 3) ourselves. We must be active in considering the mysteries. Jesus and Mary worked their roles in the mysteries for our benefit. When St. John Paul says, “to Jesus through Mary,” who is it that is going to Jesus through Mary? I would argue that it is us. We are present in the mysteries. Respectfully, the mysteries are an encounter across time, not a museum. Just as the Mass is a living encounter, not only a historical remembrance.Salibi:
Agree wholeheartedly.
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philipanthonyxavier
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Agreed. thank you!
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philipanthonyxavier
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Thank you, OddBird, for your thoughtful perspective. I actually think that the value of these mysteries is to give us a way to imitate and model these future events, even though they have not yet happened. They are a way to visualize them. The book of Revelation was given to us for this purpose, primarily. Holy Scripture mostly explains the past. And yet, we have this book that is a cause of future-facing hope. I actually think the value of these is precisely to turn our hearts and minds to these future events that will be very personal for us.
St. Thomas More often mediated on “the four last things”, which is generally an invitation to think and meditate upon the future. An opportunity to find hope in uncertainty, which seems particularly timely now.
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philipanthonyxavier
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Many thanks to all of you! I did not know about this rich tradition of alternative mysteries of the Rosary. I am encouraged and interested to learn more about them.
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CRV
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Yes, I agree completely .
I just don’t see the mysteries of the rosary in any other way. For me, I am meditating on that aspect of their lives, the important lesson in it (for us now, to live as Christ’s followers). It helps us grow closer to God, Jesus & the Holy Spirit and Mary. I also see them as types of ‘signposts’ along the way, with which to measure/check our progress, as the end of all this is our crowning with glory in heaven.
Whilst one could say that we could meditate on the various viewpoints of those depicted in a particular scene of the rosary, perhaps imagining from Josephs viewpoint, or even inserting ourselves in the scene as if we were there and witnessing that event - and I see nothing wrong with this, I just personally prefer to stay with the traditional meditations of the rosary.
I am more familiar with “All for Jesus through Mary”. We go to Mary and she takes our petitions to Jesus, as a good Mother would. Mary being Immaculate, I personally think purifies and perfects my poor prayers - for which I am most grateful, as I dare say I don’t know how to ask properly.
Who is it going to Jesus through Mary? - all of humanity, and naturally individually too of those praying the rosary.
For myself personally, I just don’t see a need to add to the Holy Rosary as it is. But I also see nothing wrong with individuals doing so as a private act of devotion.
God bless.
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mythbuster1
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The Book of Revelation explicitly blesses those who read or hear its words and heed them. These things are our Blessed Hope, the fulfillment of the salvation Christ purchased for us by His Cross and Resurrection.
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philipanthonyxavier
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Wonderful question and advice. I will make an attempt at identifying spiritual fruits. Great idea.
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philipanthonyxavier
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Important
Wonderful point.
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philipanthonyxavier
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What a lovely and thoughtful perspective, CRV. I will meditate on this and consider. I thought of putting myself in the scene of the first Triumphant Mystery, the Clarion Call, in the following way. I realize this may not be a good fit for your prayer, but sharing just in case.
Meditating on the Mystery: Place Yourself In the Scene
(Using your imagination, try to put yourself in the scene…)
Since our youngest days, Our Lord revealed himself to us in in partial and varied ways. We were children, like all of Creation, and spiritually immature. We could never dare to approach the full truth of God and expect to live. He would lovingly send a glimpse here, or inspiration there. Even the prophets of old … the great prophets like Jonah, Moses, Elijah, and the Baptist … they all saw only one face or another of the jewel of God’s loving truth.
We recall, you and I, the words of the Apostle Paul: “At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully.”
All this has changed! We suddenly see the Lamb that was slain, with John, with all the world, now before our very eyes. The Lamb is worthy, and he has opened the scroll for all the world to see! The Lord no longer speaks partially, but fully. All are presented with his truth, at once, in the full light of glorious day. We hear “every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, everything in the universe, cry out: ‘To the one who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor, glory and might, forever and ever.’” The words of St. Paul are fulfilled in our hearing … you and I, like all creatures, have finally seen the Lord as he is.
He has issued a clarion call to conversion to all. How will we answer it? How will you answer it?
Meditating on the Mystery: Place Yourself In the Scene
(Using your imagination, try to put yourself in the scene…)
Since our youngest days, Our Lord revealed himself to us in in partial and varied ways. We were children, like all of Creation, and spiritually immature. We could never dare to approach the full truth of God and expect to live. He would lovingly send a glimpse here, or inspiration there. Even the prophets of old … the great prophets like Jonah, Moses, Elijah, and the Baptist … they all saw only one face or another of the jewel of God’s loving truth.
We recall, you and I, the words of the Apostle Paul: “At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully.”
All this has changed! We suddenly see the Lamb that was slain, with John, with all the world, now before our very eyes. The Lamb is worthy, and he has opened the scroll for all the world to see! The Lord no longer speaks partially, but fully. All are presented with his truth, at once, in the full light of glorious day. We hear “every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, everything in the universe, cry out: ‘To the one who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor, glory and might, forever and ever.’” The words of St. Paul are fulfilled in our hearing … you and I, like all creatures, have finally seen the Lord as he is.
He has issued a clarion call to conversion to all. How will we answer it? How will you answer it?
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Edmundus1581
Guest
Worthy of contemplation indeed!
Unfortunately I can’t do more than offer you encouragement and support, but I do hope that something comes of this idea. You can only get it started by finding some support and a “champion” to work with you so that you aren’t seen as persuing a lone mission. In the Catholic church, clergy and religious tend to receive more respect when there’s a new idea to be considered.
As a practical suggestion, I note the title of your thread “Do We Need Triumphant Mysteries of the Holy Rosary”, and suggest you immediately banish any mention that the mysteries are “needed”. I’m sure it was just a slip while composing your post (easy to do!), but when you are trying to push a new idea people will find any excuse to reject it, and this would be an easy one.
It will likely take years and much persistence on your part, but I think you have something here.
I can’t see these ever being added at the same status as the four “official” sets of mysteries, but I hope that it receives some canonical approval, such as an imprimatur, and success as a popular devotion alongside other alternative mysteries.
And, welcome to CAF!
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Chet1
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To be honest, we don’t need the Luminous mysteries! When Pope Saint JPII introduced them they were to be temporary and optional. Last I heard the Confraternity of the Holy Rosary stuck with three sets of mysteries! 0
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Edmundus1581
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Last I checked the Confraternity was strongly recommending the Luminous Mysteries, but said they were not willing yet to oblige them on the members.
But, yes, “need” is the wrong word, as I pointed out above.
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Chet1
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Oh I agree, if you want to pray the Luminous mysteries, knock yourself out, or develop a set of Triumphant mysteries, for that matter, there are hundreds of scriptural rosaries, spiritual risaries, healing rosaries, you name it, BUT, the ancient Rosary of 150 Aves, corresponding to the 150 Psalms, used since the middle ages, by the faithful, in Lee of reciting the psalms, hence t h e name"Mary’s Psalter!" That Rosary should, should have been sacrosanct! My, clinical, view is that Cathic publishers jumped on an opportunity to increase sales! While I have prayed the Luminous mysteries, if Mary’s Psalter was good enough for Saints Dominic, Louis de Montfort, and Blessed Allen de la Roche, its good enough for me!
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