Do we really believe in Heaven, if we try not to die?

[CatholicSoxFan]

This is argument originally brought up in a YouTube video, but it was brought up in an old CAL show that I was listening to in the archives, and it got me thinking about it. It’s originally intended to refute the kibds of Christians that would believe in Eternal Security, but I don’t think the falsity of Eternal Security completely invalidates it. The argument basically goes like this: if theists believe that Heaven exists, and that they will go there when they die, and Heaven is as good as we think it is, why do theists take the same measures to stay alive as atheists do? I don’t think it’s really about suicide, but other things where one’s life is at risk. Theists, for example, are just as likely to refuse a game of Russian Roulette as an atheist. It just seems that theists aren’t that confident that there are actually reaards for them if they were to die, the argument goes. I’m not having a faith crisis or anything, it’s just an interesting objection I’d like an answer to.

 

[SuzanneD]

I enjoy the life has given me here and now, and I look forward to Heaven. I don’t see that the first invalidates the second.

 

[dshix]

This is argument originally brought up in a YouTube video, but it was brought up in an old CAL show that I was listening to in the archives, and it got me thinking about it. It’s originally intended to refute the kibds of Christians that would believe in Eternal Security, but I don’t think the falsity of Eternal Security completely invalidates it. The argument basically goes like this: if theists believe that Heaven exists, and that they will go there when they die, and Heaven is as good as we think it is, why do theists take the same measures to stay alive as atheists do? I don’t think it’s really about suicide, but other things where one’s life is at risk. Theists, for example, are just as likely to refuse a game of Russian Roulette as an atheist. It just seems that theists aren’t that confident that there are actually reaards for them if they were to die, the argument goes. I’m not having a faith crisis or anything, it’s just an interesting objection I’d like an answer to.

The reason is because we have a moral obligation to protect our lives as far as possible in ordinary circumstances.

This principle relies on the fact that only one being in existence has the right to take the life of a human: God. God alone has full rights to our lives, and thus we should be willing to let Him take our life when the time has come, so that He can carry out His plan for our lives. If a person is careless with his life, or ends it intentionally, he sins against the fifth commandment, because he does (or threatens to do) harm to his own body.

Many saints prayed for death. They wanted Heaven earnestly, but knew that they did not have the right to kill themselves, but must let God take them in His own good time.

 

[Beryllos]

God put each of us here on Earth for a reason, to do some good, to love one another, to save some souls. If we seek an early death, or take unnecessary risks, we may not accomplish the good that is possible.

 

[Sarcelle]

God put each of us here on Earth for a reason, to do some good, to love one another, to save some souls. If we seek an early death, or take unnecessary risks, we may not accomplish the good that is possible.

We live our life according to God’s will. If His will is for us to live or die than we live or die. The purpose of a Christian life is to live by God’s will, not to seek to die.

Taking unnecessary risks is a crime against the virtue of prudence.

 

[EmeraldOak]

I don’t want to die until my work on earth is done. I don’t know exactly what that work is so I’m not going to intentionally die and leave God’s will undone.

 

[JimG]

Maybe it’s because we also believe in hell.

Or maybe we’re not too eager to reach purgatory just yet.

 

[GangGreen]

I believe in Heaven, I just don’t think I’m good enough to go there yet. So I have a lot of work to do and dying would kind of not allow me to do that.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

People tend to be comfortable with what they know (the world), and a tad anxious about what they don’t know (heaven and hell).

None of us can know how we will ultimately be judged, so it is judgment we fear after death.

Those who have no faith have good reason to fear death, since it is for them the absolute end.

 

[Aloysium]

You are trivializing death. A game of Russian roulette, seriously?
I don’t want to get graphic, but think choking and struggling for breath on and off for days, possibly months on end.
Think of losing your wife, your child, etc. No more hugs.
Everyone, everyone wants it to stop. There are drugs to diminish the suffering. Like John Paul II, not everyone chooses this way out, preferring to live the fullness of the experience.
Some very religious people fight to the end because they love life, their families and friends so much.
There are as many approaches to death as there are people, who cannot simply be divided into discrete groups of believers vs nonbelievers.

 

[Frankenfurter]

The argument basically goes like this: if theists believe that Heaven exists, and that they will go there when they die, and Heaven is as good as we think it is, why do theists take the same measures to stay alive as atheists do?

This type of argument is actual an atheist’s attempt to look for proof of God. Since the atheist has never encountered God, he is looking for God in the actions of others. He is interpreting (rather naively) that if he could just find someone who is ready to die or perhaps kill himself, then that guy must know and be sure about heaven, and God. It is sort of looking for a quick proof of God. Very distasteful line of thinking in many respects. It is intellectually lazy and insults everyone.

 

[animalis]

Death is not a good. We all desire the good. Therefore, we do not all desire to die.

Hope is a good. We are saved by hope. Therefore, all are saved by hope.

The means to heaven, is the means to all who seek it. It is not specified by individualism. It is a state of perfection of the entire body of Christ.

St. Rose of Lima said we only reach heaven by the cross. Hence, if we desire the annihilablity of our present life, that does not mean we can achieve it. For our life moves on, and cannot be destroyed. Truly, do we know what we believe?, we understand by practical steps in the esteem of wisdom. What we know is direction, not the substance thereof. The wisdom is the knowledge of God, who is a mystery. It is also our happiness and our last end. God is here in the body of Christ, it is false in natural tendencies to say I seek the body of Christ in heaven, as if the one I think of here is to be of an annihilation. Hence, we do not desire to leave our body, we are moved out of it.

When the mystics were given light, some of them saw thier soul leave it quarters. We can give no credit to ourselves if we were given those graces. But if we could give the credit, then we could credit ourselves as the portal into heaven. Whoso would be more proud to credit the mediatorship, that only Christ shares? Only by the cross, not by the comfort of pride do we enter heaven.

In short the question touches on the sin of presumption, which is a offence against hope.