Do we really have free will?

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It is an excruciatingly painful question, but a good one.

In a discussion like this terms must be defined strictly before any progress or argument can be made, otherwise people will simply misunderstand each others arguments.

On a larger scale, events certainly follow causes and are therefore deterministic. However, on a quantum level things get tricky, because as far as we know some particles have completely random personalities and therefore can’t be determined. But that is not to say that one day we won’t be able to find a new mechanism to predict their ‘patterns’. But i’m sitting on the fence with this one.
 
ianoleary said:
I’m still not seeing exactly how we have it. I want to, though. And that brings up another point: we can do what we want, but can we choose what we want? It sure doesn’t feel like it. Any thoughts?
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Welcome to the forum! 🙂

It is impossible to understand free will fully because it is a supernatural power which is based on insight and distinguishes us from animals by enabling us to control our instincts. We can choose what we want because we can also choose what we don’t want! It works both ways.
 
Our free will has many forms - it can for example take place as repent - what’s important is to never stop ask questions and dig deeper and deeper into the truth.
 
You can choose to buy an apple or an orange. You can choose to sin or not to sin, you can choose to believe in God or be an atheist. You can choose to kill the person next to you, or you can choose to spare their life. You can choose to lie or to tell the truth.

I’m pretty sure you have free will. But use it for good only.
 
tonyrey said:
Welcome to the forum! 🙂

It is impossible to understand free will fully because it is a supernatural power which is based on insight and distinguishes us from animals by enabling us to control our instincts. We can choose what we want because we can also choose what we don’t want! It works both ways.
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Thank you for welcoming me! 🙂

Honestly, I feel I have a real desire to know the truth - I’m still just trying to figure out what it all is, though, for sure. I sincerely hope we have free will, because if we don’t then I don’t know what to believe anymore…
 
Okay, this question is really, really scaring me. Somebody help me!!! Everything seems to be controlled by our genes, personality, and environment, none of which we choose. How the heck do we have free will?
 
ianoleary said:
Okay, this question is really, really scaring me. Somebody help me!!! Everything seems to be controlled by our genes, personality, and environment, none of which we choose. How the heck do we have free will?
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That we have it, is due to its being a free gift of God. It is part of his “image” that we share. How we get it is a mystery. The early teachers of the Church called it an aspect of the soul.

Despite all of those external influences that we have to deal with, we have the power to do the opposite of where our feelings tend drive us to.
 
I sure hope you’re right. I just wish I could be absolutely certain…
 
Is your real concern that you fear you will be damned or saved if you have free will, or damned or saved if you do not?
 
ianoleary said:
Thank you for welcoming me! 🙂

Honestly, I feel I have a real desire to know the truth - I’m still just trying to figure out what it all is, though, for sure. I sincerely hope we have free will, because if we don’t then I don’t know what to believe anymore…
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If you didn’t have free will you wouldn’t have to worry! What you (dis)believe would be entirely beyond your control. That’s why many people prefer to believe we are just animals: it exonerates them of all responsibility and leaves them “free” to do what they like!

The only problem (for them) is that if they’re not free they can’t be reasonable - and if they can’t be reasonable how can they know we’re not free? 😉
 
Reivax said:
It is an excruciatingly painful question, but a good one.

In a discussion like this terms must be defined strictly before any progress or argument can be made, otherwise people will simply misunderstand each others arguments.

On a larger scale, events certainly follow causes and are therefore deterministic. However, on a quantum level things get tricky, because as far as we know some particles have completely random personalities and therefore can’t be determined. But that is not to say that one day we won’t be able to find a new mechanism to predict their ‘patterns’. But i’m sitting on the fence with this one.
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Randomness confers confusion not freedom.
 
What scares me (and I’ve noticed that this happens a lot) is that I seem to do so much without even consciously thinking about it.
 
ianoleary said:
What scares me (and I’ve noticed that this happens a lot) is that I seem to do so much without even consciously thinking about it.
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It should give you confidence! Sometimes I drive for miles without aware of my surroundings but the automatic pilot works successfully - perhaps even better than when I’m conscious of where I am and likely to be distracted by something or some one off the road. 🙂

Hypnosis is powerful precisely because it utilises the unconscious mind - and it highlights the difference that free will makes to our behaviour. If it didn’t exist we would always be hypnotised by events and lack self-control.
 
57Bill said:
Is your real concern that you fear you will be damned or saved if you have free will, or damned or saved if you do not?
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My fear is that we don’t have free will, therefore God wouldn’t exist (at least not in the Catholic sense) and therefore that we will cease into nothingness when we die. I’m afraid of losing my consciousness and my mind and “soul” (if I even have one).
 
ianoleary said:
My fear is that we don’t have free will, therefore God wouldn’t exist (at least not in the Catholic sense) and therefore that we will cease into nothingness when we die. I’m afraid of losing my consciousness and my mind and “soul” (if I even have one).
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While I understand that feeling, it doesn’t make sense philosophically, and I think it can be overcome.

For changes in the environment to matter, they have to matter to conscious systems, like yours and mine. If you were faced with the prospect of eternal torture in hell, that would be something to be concerned about, because consciousness would be required to experience that. Oblivion is basically the opposite of this. There is no experiencing oblivion, because oblivion is the complete and literal absence of experience.

By the way, I don’t think that realizing the God of Abraham doesn’t exist necessarily forces you to give up on the idea of an afterlife. For my part, I don’t think there’s any such thing, but they aren’t contingent beliefs. If Deism is true, then maybe there is an afterlife. Maybe there’s no need for any sort of God to have an afterlife (although this is harder to justify philosophically). So, you could still technically hope for life after the death. But to return to my point. By the time you land in oblivion, you won’t even have the consciousness required to dwell on what you’ve lost. So there’s nothing to fear.
 
ASimon said:
While I understand that feeling, it doesn’t make sense philosophically, and I think it can be overcome.

For changes in the environment to matter, they have to matter to conscious systems, like yours and mine. If you were faced with the prospect of eternal torture in hell, that would be something to be concerned about, because consciousness would be required to experience that. Oblivion is basically the opposite of this. There is no experiencing oblivion, because oblivion is the complete and literal absence of experience.

By the way, I don’t think that realizing the God of Abraham doesn’t exist necessarily forces you to give up on the idea of an afterlife. For my part, I don’t think there’s any such thing, but they aren’t contingent beliefs. If Deism is true, then maybe there is an afterlife. Maybe there’s no need for any sort of God to have an afterlife (although this is harder to justify philosophically). So, you could still technically hope for life after the death. But to return to my point. By the time you land in oblivion, you won’t even have the consciousness required to dwell on what you’ve lost. So there’s nothing to fear.
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The prospect of total extinction is not be feared but to be regarded with suspicion! The very fact that - unlike animals - we are capable of understanding the meaning of terms that refer to intangibles like truth, freedom and justice is compelling evidence that we are not merely physical accidents, i.e. sparks in the dark!
 
tonyrey said:
The prospect of total extinction is not be feared but to be regarded with suspicion! The very fact that - unlike animals - we are capable of understanding the meaning of terms that refer to intangibles like truth, freedom and justice is compelling evidence that we are not merely physical accidents, i.e. sparks in the dark!
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No, it isn’t. That we can define abstract concepts does not speak as evidence for a Creator. Nor, by the way, does the fact of a Creator necessarily mean there is an afterlife.
 
ASimon said:
The prospect of total extinction is not be feared but to be regarded with suspicion! The very fact that - unlike animals - we are capable of understanding the meaning of terms that refer to intangibles like truth, freedom and justice is compelling evidence that we are not merely physical accidents, i.e. sparks in the dark!
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It is evidence for the falsity of materialism.
Nor, by the way, does the fact of a Creator necessarily mean there is an afterlife.
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Not necessarily but it raises more problems than it solves. There would be a lot of unfinished business, unrectified injustice, unfulfilled ideals and unrequited love - all of which would make the concept of a Creator so implausible He would not dare to exist! :cool:
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tonyrey said:
It is evidence for the falsity of materialism.
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Not really.
Not necessarily but it raises more problems than it solves. There would be a lot of unfinished business, unrectified injustice, unfulfilled ideals and unrequited love - all of which would make the concept of a Creator so implausible He would not dare to exist! :cool:
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Only if you insist on believing the Universe was set up with you in mind, with all wrong righted, tears dried, and so forth.

I see no reason why the Creator of All Things must be concerned with our petty trifles.
 
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