Do we really need to prove God's existence? What happened to good old fashioned FAITH?

[Count_Golgotha]

I know I’m probably going to get flamed for what I’m about to say, but I’ll say it anyway:

Aquinas, Anselm, and all these other philosophers who try to prove that God exists…I believe they’re fighting the wrong battle. They try to explain that which by its very nature cannot be explained. I think, instead of trying to innovate these ideas to try to prove God’s existence rationally, we should just work with the gift that God Himself already gave us: Faith.

I believe what we should do is not prove that God exists, but rather, just prove why it’s best to believe in Him. We can’t prove His existence; to be able to prove His existence implies that He is part of the physical, which in turn implies that He has limits, which is obviously false.

This is where I believe Pascal and his Wager really hit the nail on the head. Without any complicated reasoning, using simple logic and probability, he gives proof that it’s better to be a believer than a non-believer. He doesn’t even address the “does he exist?” issue because he knows it’s an unanswerable question. We can’t prove God exists; all we can do is continue to have faith in Him and convince others of the logicality of having faith over doubting.

 

[Oreoracle]

I know I’m probably going to get flamed for what I’m about to say, but I’ll say it anyway:

Aquinas, Anselm, and all these other philosophers who try to prove that God exists…I believe they’re fighting the wrong battle. They try to explain that which by its very nature cannot be explained. I think, instead of trying to innovate these ideas to try to prove God’s existence rationally, we should just work with the gift that God Himself already gave us: Faith.

I appreciate your spirit.

This is where I believe Pascal and his Wager really hit the nail on the head. Without any complicated reasoning, using simple logic and probability, he gives proof that it’s better to be a believer than a non-believer. He doesn’t even address the “does he exist?” issue because he knows it’s an unanswerable question. We can’t prove God exists; all we can do is continue to have faith in Him and convince others of the logicality of having faith over doubting.

I believe there were two major flaws with Pascal’s Wager: a) It could apply to many different gods. It saves you from one hell and damns you to another. b) One cannot will oneself to believe in something.

Lastly, belief doesn’t seem to be enough; according to the Bible, one must support God’s beliefs, his ethics, etc., in order to be saved. Why would anyone wish to support someone who will damn you to everlasting torment for disagreement?

 

[AndyT_81]

Hi Count Golgotha,

I agree with you that a definitive, deductive proof of the existence of God is probably unattainable. In fact most arguments for God’s existence today rely on both inductive (i.e. generalisations from experience) and deductive components. What does this mean for faith? Well inductive arguments always have an element of uncertainty, therefore there is a gap that is still required to be crossed by making that leap of faith.

 

[Spirit_of_Truth]

Proof, what is proof that can be seen to be if science for the most is to dissect and elect. It is just as well Jesus came when he did.

There can be no faith without proof; the proof of failure and achievement, good and evil coexist to give us firm convictions in our faith i.e. belief. Do you really think that god leads the blind, of course not. Those who have faith in god have proof as they see it, but for some just how much proof is needed is another matter.

Faith in certain circles is dangerous as history has well documented, as in the eyes and actions of many i.e. blind faith.

To simplify it: it is when you believe in something - then you have faith that the sun will shine tomorrow, some day.

And if that is not enough (in some circles it seldom is) Judge me not by what I say, but what I do - it is here that I have great faith in his actions.

 

[geometer]

Logic has never proved the existence of anything, that is not how existence is proved. Every existence is proved through experience.

God will prove his own existence. And, if God has not been proven in your experience, you simply are not serious about prayer. Ask God to do things that only God can do.

The perfect prayer that proves His existence, is to ask God to physcally move you from one place to another place. When he does move you, you will disappear, and then you will be delivered back to earth at your destination. It is a very beautiful experience, during the day, because the light of the sun shines through you as you are reformed from spirit.

It was Jesus who said you must enter Gods kingdom by being reborn of spirit. It may be a long way and a narrow way, but that is the way. Jesus is ‘in his name’ God delivering you. That is why it is said that Jesus is the greatest name.

When you have been moved, you have been born of God, and have overcome the physical world… It takes great faith to move God, to move you. Your new existence will be physical evidence that God our Father, does exist.

 

[Count_Golgotha]

Lastly, belief doesn’t seem to be enough; according to the Bible, one must support God’s beliefs, his ethics, etc., in order to be saved. Why would anyone wish to support someone who will damn you to everlasting torment for disagreement?

Oh I don’t doubt that we’re called to defend our faith, but I believe we’re called to defend it not with rhetoric, but with works of charity and love, which require little to no logic; only a big heart!

NOT that I don’t like logic; I frickin LOVE IT! I am a Philosophy Minor after all.