Do we really want another 500 years of division between Catholics and Protestants?

[CopticChristian]

Of course not. The catholic church includes those who are united to Christ by faith from Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, and other Christian communities. Heck, you can be united to Christ by faith without being a member of a religious institutions. God saves His elect for His own glory in-spite of the errors in our churches that we attend. Our particular churches do not save us; rather Christ saves us.

Unity,

Since you are a Calvinist, you believe that there are the elect in Catholic, Orthodox and other communities?

How do you get this Faith that unites you to Christ?

 

[PRmerger]

After several months exploring the idea of Christian Unity between Catholics and Protestants, I have almost concluded that we have irreconcilable differences. I will choose the sufficiency of Christ as our only means and basis for our union with Christ throughout our Christian journey. I do believe the Catholic view of justification is based on personal merit and develops a works righteousness gospel which is not compatible with biblical cross theology. Oh well, at least I tried. - Peace :knight1:

I don’t see how what we as Catholics are doing is any different than what you would do if approached by a Muslim who wanted Monotheistic Unity.

You wouldn’t compromise the Truth so you could have unity with this Muslim co-monotheist, would you?

Rather, what you would do, I presume, is say: Brother, we are agreed that there is only One God. You got that right! But, sadly, we are not agreed when you say that Jesus is not Divine. For us to have unity, you will have to come to an agreement on this truth.

 

[pablope]

I do believe the Catholic view of justification is based on personal merit and develops a works righteousness gospel which is not compatible with biblical cross theology. Oh well, at least I tried. - Peace :knight1:

hmmm…so you are making a judgement based on what? And what is your authority to make such a judgemetn? As I recall in this thread…you claimed you are not infallible…so there is a possibility you are making a mistake…so why should I or any Catholic believe you?

 

[stewstew03]

…
Our particular churches do not save us; rather Christ saves us.

Sure - but I believe that 1 Timothy 3:15 is the Word of God. Therefore, the Church has authority to determine Truth vis-a-vis Scripture.

Do the Mormons preach truth? Does “Christian Unity” preach truth?

I’ll pass on the touchy-feely snake-oil in favor of Truth that sets me free. Thanks anyway.

 

[Porknpie]

Of course not. The catholic church includes those who are united to Christ by faith from Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, and other Christian communities. Heck, you can be united to Christ by faith without being a member of a religious institutions. God saves His elect for His own glory in-spite of the errors in our churches that we attend. Our particular churches do not save us; rather Christ saves us.

Interesting though that Christian Unity in the early Church referred to the Catholic Church alone. The Church Jesus himself said he would guide to all Truth. Your Truth is invented by and led to error by a man in the 16th century. The early Church included the Eucharist just as Jesus himself instituted and just as the Catholic Church has continued with for 2000 years.

“See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God.** Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it.** Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).

“[A]ll the people wondered that there should be such a difference between the unbelievers and the elect, of whom this most admirable Polycarp was one, having in our own times been an apostolic and prophetic teacher, and bishop of the Catholic Church which is in Smyrna. For every word that went out of his mouth either has been or shall yet be accomplished.” Martyrdom of Polycarp, 16:2 (A.D. 155).

“[N]or does it consist in this, that he should again falsely imagine, as being above this [fancied being], a Pleroma at one time supposed to contain thirty, and at another time an innumerable tribe of Aeons, as these teachers who are destitute of truly divine wisdom maintain; **while the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, **as we have already said.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1:10,3 (A.D. 180).

“For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago,–in the reign of Antoninus for the most part,–and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled.” Tertullian, On the Prescription Against Heretics, 22,30 (A.D. 200).

”Whence you ought to know that the bishop is in the Church, and the Church in the bishop; and if any one be not with the bishop, that he is not in the Church, and that those flatter themselves in vain who creep in, not having peace with God’s priests, and think that they communicate secretly with some; while the Church, which is Catholic and one, is not cut nor divided, but is indeed connected and bound together by the cement of priests who cohere with one another.” Cyprian, To Florentius, Epistle 66/67 (A.D. 254).

“But for those who say, There was when He was not, and, Before being born He was not, and that He came into existence out of nothing, or who assert that the Son of God is of a different hypostasis or substance…these the Catholic and apostolic Church anathematizes.” Creed of Nicea (A.D. 325).

 

[Isaiah45_9]

After several months exploring the idea of Christian Unity between Catholics and Protestants, I have almost concluded that we have irreconcilable differences. I will choose the sufficiency of Christ as our only means and basis for our union with Christ throughout our Christian journey. I do believe the Catholic view of justification is based on personal merit and develops a works righteousness gospel which is not compatible with biblical cross theology. Oh well, at least I tried. - Peace :knight1:

Prove it.

 

[Steveabrous]

I agree in most part to what you are saying. as a former protestant I know several protestants that I consider living saints. However, the division is on the shoulders of the protestants. They are the ones who rebelled. And there are issues that are irreconcilable between us. I also find that the division is perpetuated more by protestants then Catholics. What with there anti-catholic propaganda. You said that they don’t believe they are being disobedient to God by being disobedient to the magisterium. Just because they don’t believe it doesn’t make it so.

 

[october_baby]

I agree in most part to what you are saying. as a former protestant I know several protestants that I consider living saints. However, the division is on the shoulders of the protestants. They are the ones who rebelled. And there are issues that are irreconcilable between us. I also find that the division is perpetuated more by protestants then Catholics. What with there anti-catholic propaganda. You said that they don’t believe they are being disobedient to God by being disobedient to the magisterium. Just because they don’t believe it doesn’t make it so.

I agree!

 

[nicolakirwan]

I think that what a lot of Catholics don’t realize is that despite the anti-Catholic apologetics that abound, most “Protestant Christians” aren’t thinking about Catholicism at all, either because they were never exposed to it, have received misinformation that causes them to dismiss it, or are less than compelled by the witness of Church leaders and laypersons.

No one is going to justify their position in an argument they aren’t aware they’re having.

 

[CopticChristian]

I think that what a lot of Catholics don’t realize is that despite the anti-Catholic apologetics that abound, most “Protestant Christians” aren’t thinking about Catholicism at all, either because they were never exposed to it, have received misinformation that causes them to dismiss it, or are less than compelled by the witness of Church leaders and laypersons.

No one is going to justify their position in an argument they aren’t aware they’re having.

Nicol,

You minimize a reality that most if not all Evangelical Protestants see Catholics as dear souls to save…they don’t dismiss it, they believe that they must bring the message to their cult lost children. I have too often been witness to this and I would imagine there are many that have seen the likes of the Biblioter that comes to these forums to save us.

 

[studychristian]

Logically we can conclude that there cannot be many truths, just one truth and the rest of lies. I believe Roman Catholicism is the truth, and the closest thing to the truth, but not the full truth itself, is Eastern Orthodoxy.

 

[october_baby]

Logically we can conclude that there cannot be many truths, just one truth and the rest of lies. I believe Roman Catholicism is the truth, and the closest thing to the truth, but not the full truth itself, is Eastern Orthodoxy.

I came too this conclusion as well.

 

[Sunny1980]

Unity between Protestants and Catholics, as well as other religions, is possible only in truth as independent and objective concept… our ideas of God can vary significantly but in any case the divine source is only one.
I wonder what you think if such concept would be possible. I recently found it at systemoutlook.com/ I am reading the book and it’s just leaves me speechless: so simple, logical and deep conceptual knowledge.
I think that this concept offers a real chance to overcome religious interpretations in a friendly manner.
I wonder what’s your opinion on it.

 

[CopticChristian]

Logically we can conclude that there cannot be many truths, just one truth and the rest of lies. I believe Roman Catholicism is the truth, and the closest thing to the truth, but not the full truth itself, is Eastern Orthodoxy.

Study,

Explain this…

Logically. Ok. You can use logic and make a conclusion.

There is one truth. So far so good.

You believe, assuming that you are basing this on logic, since you said we can conclude one truth by Logic. Beliefs are not necessarily logical.

Next you say, as you believe, Roman Catholocism is the truth…then I lose you

Roman Catholocism is the truth and the closest thing to the truth. So is it the truth or the closest thing to the truth? It cannot be both.

Now you lose me again…but…whenever you use the word but, however…you negate everything that comes before…

I love you with all my heart but…

I would do anything for you but…

So, Roman Catholocism is the truth or the closest thing to it…but…and then you say

not the full truth itself, followed by a comma…and then you state Eastern Orthodoxy

What is it you are trying to say here?

 

[cheezey]

Study…

What is it you are trying to say here?

 

[nicolakirwan]

Probl’y no need for popcorn.

I’m sure studychristian will be back, but I think the proper reading of what he wrote was:

“I believe Roman Catholicism is the truth. And the closest thing to the truth, but not the full truth itself, is Eastern Orthodoxy.”

 

[CopticChristian]

Probl’y no need for popcorn.

I’m sure studychristian will be back, but I think the proper reading of what he wrote was:

“I believe Roman Catholicism is the truth. And the closest thing to the truth, but not the full truth itself, is Eastern Orthodoxy.”

Nicol,

This would be called a Rescue…I believe Study can speak for themself…we wait…

 

[CopticChristian]

Cheeze,

Glad to see you back, hope you’re taking good care of yourself…You are making me hungry with the popcorn…

 

[cheezey]

Cheeze,

Glad to see you back, hope you’re taking good care of yourself…You are making me hungry with the popcorn…

Thank you!!!

I am just glad that I finally feel like eating.
I did the popcorn because I’d like to join this particular forum, but I am not terribly erudite at this time, so I am but a spectator munching away… Too much going on. But it is fascinating, especially since I can see both sides of the proverbial fence.
My mouse died too and I hate the mouse pad thingy.

May the debate continue…

 

[RickDecker]

Nicol,

This would be called a Rescue…I believe Study can speak for themself…we wait…

Friend:

You are reading too much into what the poster wrote. The post was written in a confusing manner. That’s all.

Blessings