Do we really want another 500 years of division between Catholics and Protestants?

[Caliburn]

Jesus is the only person who has not sinned.

Some Catholics often call Mary the mother of God, but God does not have a mother, for God and Jesus already existed before Mary existed (Isaiah 43:10). Mary was not God’s mother, but simply a channel through which Jesus entered this physical world.

THE POPE
The Pope is a man Catholics have claimed is a mediator between God and mankind. But as it has been said Jesus is the only mediator between God and mankind (1 Timothy 2:5). Catholics also claim the Pope is the head of the Church on earth, but the Bible says Jesus is the head of the Church (Colossians 1:18, Ephesians 1:22, Colossians 2:9-10). We should not give to any man the honour that belongs to Jesus alone.

CONFESSION
It is often believed among Catholics that a certain group of people called priests, have the power and authority to forgive sins. So sins must be confessed to priests. But such beliefs are the opposite of what is found in the Bible, which says Jesus has the power to forgive sins (Matthew 9:6). Also, no human priest is a mediator between God and man. The Bible also teaches we can ask God ourselves for forgiveness, and He promises to forgive us and cleanse us (1 John 1:9). Peter also said in the Bible, that through Jesus name, whoever believes in Him will receive forgiveness of their sins (Acts 10:43). The Bible does not teach that today there should be a special class of people called priests, for God sees all Christians as priests (1 Peter 2:9).

PENANCE
the Bible does not say anything about penance, God does not demand such things for the forgiveness of sins. God’s forgiveness is a free gift we receive by turning away from our wrong ways and accepting it through believing in Jesus as our Lord (Galatians 2:16, Romans 1:17).

PURGATORY
This imaginary place keeps many Catholics in fear all their life, because they can never be sure of how long they will spend there. A fear of purgatory causes many Catholics to miss out on the joy and peace that comes from knowing Jesus has paid the full price for sin. Catholics often teach that time spent in purgatory can be reduced by gifts of money, the prayers of priests, and by doing other things. Through such teachings the Catholic Church has collected billions of dollars, making it one of the richest institutions in the world.

However nothing about purgatory can be found in the Bible. Jesus said in the Bible, that He who hears His word and believes in Him who sent Him, has everlasting life, and will not be judged, but has passed from death to life (John 5:24). The Bible also says God does not remember sins that have been forgiven (Hebrews 10:17). The Bible also says that once Christians die they will be present with God (2 Corinthians 5:8-9), there is no place in between.

INDULGENCES
Catholics also teach that the unpaid penalties can cause individuals to be punished in this life.
The whole concept of Indulgences goes against the Bible, which teaches that God’s Gift of life is free, for the whole punishment for all sin has been paid for by Jesus once and for all (Hebrews 10:10).

RITUALS
the kissing and bowing down to images and statues of Mary, Jesus, dead people and angels. The Bible says that is wrong, and such objects should not even be made (Exodus 20:4-5).

CONCLUSION
As a Protestant, I believe the Catholic belief system has complicated the simple Gospel message. I protest any religion that teaches that to receive spiritual salvation involves a lot of hard work. I believe we have eternal life when we put our faith in Jesus, as the Scripture says: “He that believes on the Son has everlasting life” (John 3:36)

The Bible warns against those that seek to complicate and corrupt God’s simple plan of salvation (2 Corinthians 11:3). The simple truth is God’s gift of life has been fully paid by Jesus on the cross. We can receive it in this life by turning from our wrong ways and accepting Jesus as our Lord, it is not something we can get by doing good works (Ephesians 2:8-9).

So if you want to get right with God, you have to go to Jesus directly, not any Church, religious organization or human individual. Jesus said, come to me all you that labour and are heavily burdened, and I will give you rest (Matthew 11:28). We are not saved by belonging to a Church either Catholic or Protestant. There are only one kind of Christian, those that have made Jesus Lord of their life, and the simplest definition of a “true” Church is any group of people that is united by a shared love of Jesus Christ

 

[JonNC]

Jon,

Sometimes…often times…I am not clear. I know LCMS believes in the real presence. This was not the subject of my comment. Nearly all of Protestantism…does not. LCMS is an exception.

Pork.

Perhaps, my friend, I misread.

Yes, I know that there are divisions and there are other divisions, the types of which have different effects on the level of unity that is shared. I also understand the importance of apostolic succession to your communion and to Orthodoxy.

Jon

 

[Christian_Unity]

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/US....jpg?d7a3f8c02c4ecb0c13aa024e1d80d1053ad1deec

• Photo of Billy Graham and President John F Kennedy

Protestants and Catholics together; do we really want another 500 years of division between Catholics and Protestants? We can discuss whatever you want on this issue since we agree on the Apostles Creed, Nicene Creed, and Jesus is Lord; therefore, at the end of the day, we are simply just siblings in Christ. Honest discussion is the first step for Christian unity. What would you like to discuss on this issue?

It puts a smile on my face that this thread is still alive. I have time over this three day weekend to catch up on this thread. What’s the solution for unity… are we all equal in Christ now… therefore, we can have unity? I believe the cross is the great equalizer which should enable all of us to unite as one.

 

[CopticChristian]

It puts a smile on my face that this thread is still alive. I have time over this three day weekend to catch up on this thread. What’s the solution for unity… are we all equal in Christ now… therefore, we can have unity? I believe the cross is the great equalizer which should enable all of us to unite as one.

Unity,

Amen my brother. Amen…you have seen the light…Alleluia, Alleluia…I hear a Chorus, I see Angels, I knew you would come around…

What use is the cross if Jesus did not rise from the Dead…unity in the living Jesus and Unity in what he tells us…

“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54“He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Catholic Latin East/West unite in the Eucharist and if you join in the Transubstantiation thread you will see that the Lutherans and Anglicans understand the unity of the Eucharist…

Praise the Lord you want unity…come dine with us, come join with us, give up your worship of a book in your service and worship with us where we venerate Scripture and The Body of Christ…

I knew you would see your error…

 

[Christian_Unity]

Christian Unity,

Amen my brother.

Praise the Lord you want unity…

 

[PRmerger]

What’s the solution for unity… are we all equal in Christ now… therefore, we can have unity? I believe the cross is the great equalizer which should enable all of us to unite as one.

I think, CU, if you can answer the question as an extension from Christianity to Monotheism you might be able to understand the Catholic’s dilemma.

Let’s say there’s a Muslim who takes your position: he asks you: why can’t we just get along and have unity among us since we both believe that there is One God, who created the heavens and the earth, and who is all merciful and all just?

What would you respond to him, CU?

 

[Christian_Unity]

I think, CU, if you can answer the question as an extension from Christianity to Monotheism you might be able to understand the Catholic’s dilemma.

Let’s say there’s a Muslim who takes your position: he asks you: why can’t we just get along and have unity among us since we both believe that there is One God, who created the heavens and the earth, and who is all merciful and all just?

What would you respond to him, CU?

That makes no sense at all sister. The Magestrium calls Protestants your siblings in Christ, yet Muslims reject the essential truth of Christ and Him crucified for peace and reconciliation. We know Muslims need Christ, and Protestants are already united to Christ by faith.

 

[PRmerger]

That makes no sense at all sister. The Magestrium calls Protestants your siblings in Christ, yet Muslims reject the essential truth of Christ and Him crucified for peace and reconciliation. We know Muslims need Christ, and Protestants are already united to Christ by faith.

Try and extend the circle, CU.

Enlarge it to include all those folks who have the same belief that you do about God (not Christ.)

Why do you not profess to be happy to have unity with them?

 

[Christian_Unity]

Try and extend the circle, CU.

Enlarge it to include all those folks who have the same belief that you do about God (not Christ.)

Why do you not profess to be happy to have unity with them?

The Bible makes one division in humanity sister: you are either united to Adam or you are united to Christ. All other division or unity is man-made and temporal. The circle does not get extended without Christ.

 

[PRmerger]

The Bible makes one division in humanity sister: you are either united to Adam or you are united to Christ. All other division or unity is man-made and temporal. The circle does not get extended without Christ.

So why do you get to make a border but Catholics can’t?

I don’t understand why you get to decide what the line in the sand is.

You get to say to the Muslim: you are separated from us. Even if you believe in One God.

But we don’t get to say to the Protestant: you are separated from us. Even if you believe in Christ.

You get to do this, but we don’t?

Why?

 

[PRmerger]

So why do you get to make a border but Catholics can’t?

I don’t understand why you get to decide what the line in the sand is.

You get to say to the Muslim: you are separated from us. Even if you believe in One God.

But we don’t get to say to the Protestant: you are separated from us. Even if you believe in Christ.

You get to do this, but we don’t?

Why?

I see you, Christian Unity, as being in the middle (red) circle, wanting to enter our inner circle.

Muslims, in our hypothetical discussion, want to enter your middle circle.

You say No to the Muslims, but want us to say Yes to you?

Why do you demand what you are not willing to give?

 

[SteveVH]

The Bible makes one division in humanity sister: you are either united to Adam or you are united to Christ. All other division or unity is man-made and temporal. The circle does not get extended without Christ.

And if we believe that being united to Christ means being united to his Church in which we become one with God and each other through the Eucharist (true unity), are you willing to join us? Or are we to discard the source and summit of our faith which has been held for the last 2000 years? How in the world can we call ourselves unified when there is such a wide gulf between us on what we consider the most precious gift ever given to mankind and so important that if we had no Eucharist there would be no Church?

 

[Christian_Unity]

I have no desire to be in your inner circle. I push for Christian unity for the sake of Christ alone. On Facebook, there are typically two kinds of Christian group sites. You have the Evangelical, Bible Alone, Protestant groups posting left and right that Catholics are apostate and believe in a false religion … On the other side of the Facebook town, you have Catholic groups who are saying Protestants are heretics and are lost and non-catholics need to come back to the Catholic Church. That makes no sense to Protestants who never belonged to the Catholic Church in the first place. I can participate on both kinds of groups which allows me to watch the proselytizing going in each direction. It’s really sad when you think about it.

Now when you study John 17, we have a command for Christian unity for the sake of the unbeliever to believe. It’s a terrible testimony to the world in how Protestants and Catholics tend to see each other.

I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. - 1 Cor 1

 

[PRmerger]

I have no desire to be in your inner circle. I push for Christian unity for the sake of Christ alone

Fair enough.

And why do you not push for Monotheistic unity?

Why do you say that we should dismiss your rejection of the Eucharist but you cannot dismiss the Muslim’s rejection of Christ?

 

[PRmerger]

I have no desire to be in your inner circle. I push for Christian unity for the sake of Christ alone. On Facebook, there are typically two kinds of Christian group sites. You have the Evangelical, Bible Alone, Protestant groups posting left and right that Catholics are apostate and believe in a false religion … On the other side of the Facebook town, you have Catholic groups who are saying Protestants are heretics and are lost and non-catholics need to come back to the Catholic Church. That makes no sense to Protestants who never belonged to the Catholic Church in the first place. I can participate on both kinds of groups which allows me to watch the proselytizing going in each direction. It’s really sad when you think about it.

I see dialogue between Christians who reject Muslims and declare them to be worshipping a different god.

While there are Christians who proclaim Muslims to be worshipping the same God.

Why are you not able to sit on both sides of a Facebook dialogue here?

It appears you are reserving for yourself the right to be part of the first crowd, yes? Even at the expense of disunity with Muslims?

Why?

 

[Christian_Unity]

Fair enough.

And why do you not push for Monotheistic unity?

Why do you say that we should dismiss your rejection of the Eucharist but you cannot dismiss the Muslim’s rejection of Christ?

You still make no sense and are making a ridiculous point. Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox are Christians… so our unity is in Christ alone as one body of Christ. Your argument or point about Muslims does not even stand up to the Catechism of the Catholic Church on how the Magestrium separates Christians from other non-Christian religions.

 

[PRmerger]

I have no desire to be in your inner circle.

Perhaps it would have been better stated that you are critical of Catholics for having a circle and not letting you in.

Yet you have your own circle and won’t let Muslims and Jews in.

Do you see the irony here?

 

[PRmerger]

You still make no sense and are making a ridiculous point. Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox are Christians… so our unity is in Christ alone as one body of Christ. Your argument or point about Muslims does not even stand up to the Catechism of the Catholic Church on how the Magestrium separates Christians from other non-Christian religions.

Perhaps you were unaware of what the Catechism states regarding our relationship with Muslims?

"The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."CCC 841

So they profess belief in One God, just like you do.

And yet you will not let them into your circle.

You get to make a division.

But Catholics can’t.

whatshouldwecallme.tumblr.com/post/35114339615/when-my-friend-stays-after-class-to-talk-to-the

 

[Christian_Unity]

Perhaps it would have been better stated that you are critical of Catholics for having a circle and not letting you in.

Yet you have your own circle and won’t let Muslims and Jews in.

Do you see the irony here?

I not asking you to allow me in your imaginary circle. You don’t decide who is united to Christ and who is not based on what Church you belong to. For those who are united to Christ, regardless of what Church that you attend… makeup the universal body of Christ There is no irony sister, because you are missing the point about old humanity and new humanity, those united to Adam and those united to the 2nd Adam,. God’s adopted children who call upon God as their Heavenly Father are Christians from the various branches of. Christendom. It almost sounds that you believe that God only hears prayers from exclusively Catholic believers.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiandom

 

[PRmerger]

I not asking you to allow me in your imaginary circle. You don’t decide who is united to Christ and who is not based on what Church you belong to. For those who are united to Christ, regardless of what Church that you attend… makeup the universal body of Christ There is no irony sister, because you are missing the point about old humanity and new humanity, those united to Adam and those united to the 2nd Adam,. God’s adopted children who call upon God as their Heavenly Father are Christians from the various branches of. Christendom. It almost sounds that you believe that God only hears prayers from exclusively Catholic believers.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiandom

And simply extend what you say to Monotheism, and you will see the irony.

You get to exclude. You reserve that right for yourself.

But not for Catholics.

That’s just wrong, Christian Unity. On so many levels.