Do we really want another 500 years of division between Catholics and Protestants?

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batman1973 said:
Martin Luther never wanted to leave the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church excommunicated him. And as far as I understand it, the Catholic Church hasn’t fixed Martin Luther’s problems, which is why there will be no unification with Rome. The core of Lutheranism is: Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura. The Catholic Church Denys all 3 of these. That is why the Lutheran Church will not unify with Rome. Now, could any of this change? Absolutely with God all things are possible.
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You’re Right!

All of you Lutherans are capable of coming to understand why those things are wrong!

…oh, you meant the Catholic Church changing it’s doctrine. Sorry, no need to fix what isn’t broken.
 
batman1973 said:
You know Coptic I think the only person obsessively chasing the white whale to the damnation of everyone else is you. Your questions have been repeatedly asked and answered. A simple search on the internet will prove that with the exception of a few liberal most Christian denominations hold the Bible to be their central authority. Are there problems with Protestantism? sure there are. But the same problems also plauge the Catholic Church. Liberalism strikes at your church just as it does Protestantism. These groups that decide to conform to the ways of man instead of the ways of God will be held accountable.
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batman,

What did Calvin and Luther have to say about “who” has the authority to teach scripture? Do you have a statement from either to teach yourself? And what did Luther say about discarding Church history? An here we are today ironically. And who has this illusive authority to teach scripture?

Both knew this because they were learned Catholic’s. And I suggest both knew what the result would be. We have nothing like what Luther and Calvin taught but in these select Church’s.

Faith and Works has been an on-going issue in the Protestant Church alone for 500 years. 🤷

Basically we have a new animal today in many evangelical situations. Luther and Calvin would find all this disturbing, rest assure.
 
lax16 said:
Also, my son who attends a Lutheran high school, asked “if all the things Luther was protesting have been fixed, why don’t the Lutherans return to Catholicism?” How would you answer him?
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That’s a very fair question. On thing to remember, is that Lutheran’s view their church as a valid and authentic continuation of the western church. That said, I would say once Catholics and Orthodox are able to reconcile, I thing our excuses would come to an end.
 
Instead of encouraging Protestants to learn more about the Catholic faith, why don’t we encourage them to learn more about Luther, who he really was and what he really believed. That might just point them in the direction of Catholicism!
 
benjohnson said:
That’s a very fair question. On thing to remember, is that Lutheran’s view their church as a valid and authentic continuation of the western church. That said, I would say once Catholics and Orthodox are able to reconcile, I thing our excuses would come to an end.
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And to that, I would add a vey hardy AMEN!
 
batman1973 said:
Martin Luther never wanted to leave the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church excommunicated him. And as far as I understand it, the Catholic Church hasn’t fixed Martin Luther’s problems, which is why there will be no unification with Rome. The core of Lutheranism is: Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura. The Catholic Church Denys all 3 of these. That is why the Lutheran Church will not unify with Rome. Now, could any of this change? Absolutely with God all things are possible.
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Luther was excommunicated when he refused to recant or stop teaching the things he was teaching. When he received the notice of excommunication, I thought I have read that he ripped it up and issues his own against the Pope. You are correct about the 5 Solas of Lutherism and those that say Luther would still be Catholic if alive today are mistaken. I think if Luther was handled better starting with his religious order, he might not have gone down the road he did. Alot of people point to the Catholic Church but Luther himself was a pretty stubborn man with a problem with authority. Through-out Church history there have been many reformers that did not leave or end up falling into error and become ex-communicated.
Luther was ex-communicated because he began to teach heresies which he did not want to repent and stop teaching.
 
Jesus prayed to the Father saying Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we [are]. Jhn 17:11b St Paul said to the Ephesian church *Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.Eph 4:3 *and Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Eph 4:13 He further told them *[There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.Eph 4:6 *the question becomes how is that accomplished? There can be only one thing that will unify the Body of Christ and that is the scripture itself. It has been the one constant throughout the centuries. St. Paul told his young minister Timothy All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: I Tim 3:16 Should we not make a diligent effort to *Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, **rightly dividing the word of truth.**II Tim 2:15 *St. Paul brought the gospel to the Thessalonians but said of the Bereans These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11 Is this something we should be doing? Catholic, protestant it doesn’t matter if we all study the Word of God how much better off will we be and become more unified in our faith
 
batman1973 said:
Martin Luther never wanted to leave the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church excommunicated him.

And why was he excommunicated in the first place? There would have been no need for the excomm…if he had recanted his heresy.

He also had the choice to reconcile and be humble…but he chose not…so it was his own choosing. Besides, why could he not follow the example of Catherine of Sienna before him?
And as far as I understand it, the Catholic Church hasn’t fixed Martin Luther’s problems,
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Boltz44 said:
Jesus prayed to the Father saying

Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, **that they may be one, **
[There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.Eph 4:6
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Living the Word of God without the Eucharist is a most profound and original heresy and lack of faith originating in the earliest times of Christianity.

There is no way I will leave my faith because to go elsewhere I will only get a portion of nourishment in Christ, and my faith revolve around others who see everything revolving around their way of looking at things.
 
My devout Irish grandmother and I really liked Billy Graham and were refreshed after hearing his sermons.

But, likewise, I remember the time he offered John Paul II a Bible, who in turn graciously accepted it in fraternal love. I wondered if it was given to the Pope because Rev Graham did not think JP knew the Bible or lived by it???
 
KathleenGee said:
Living the Word of God without the Eucharist is a most profound and original heresy and lack of faith originating in the earliest times of Christianity.

There is no way I will leave my faith because to go elsewhere I will only get a portion of nourishment in Christ, and my faith revolve around others who see everything revolving around their way of looking at things.
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You do know that Lutherans (and most Methodist who are split from Anglican) believe it is the Real body and blood and not a symbol?
KathleenGee said:
My devout Irish grandmother and I really liked Billy Graham and were refreshed after hearing his sermons.

But, likewise, I remember the time he offered John Paul II a Bible, who in turn graciously accepted it in fraternal love. I wondered if it was given to the Pope because Rev Graham did not think JP knew the Bible or lived by it???
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We are all God’s children.
 
coachkfan1 said:
Along the lines of this same theme of difficulty in having unity, I would ask the following: Is preaching a Gospel based on “faith alone” preaching a “different” Gospel, as Paul warned about? Don’t know, just asking.
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Wow, I leave my office for a few hours and come back to all of this participation! There are way too many to respond to; therefore, I will respond to the one that I believe is the most significant. I’ve seen Catholics use Galatians 1 against Protestants; I’ve seen Protestants use Galatians 1 against Catholics.

Now how can Protestants preach a different gospel, and still remain your separated brethrens?

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. - Gal 1

What do you think Billy Graham is praying about? Do you think Billy is praying to God to make President Kennedy a Protestant? What do you think President Kennedy is praying about? Do you think John F Kennedy is praying to God to make Billy Graham a Catholic? I’m just throwing it out there for discussion. I’ll try to respond as much as I can, but with all of this activity, I can only respond to the ones that appear the most relevant to the thread topic.

:hey_bud: I’m a guy…
 
KathleenGee said:
I wondered if it was given to the Pope because Rev Graham did not think JP knew the Bible or lived by it???
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What little I know of Billy Graham would indicate that the bible was given out of love. To people like Billy, a Bible is a most precious gift.
 
One persons message really sticks with me. Mirjana from medjugorje.

"So if you have Protestants around – just our example, example, example can help. Only that – don’t fight, no discussions. Our Lady does not want discussions, disputes, no. She wants us to answer with love, with joy so that others in our life. - Mirjana

I went to another forum before and once they knew I was Catholic, I got attacked over and over. For that, I draw further from them so-called Christians. Love brings unity and Jesus will give us unity when we act in love.

It’s Jesus Church and the devil cannot divide the Church unless Jesus permits it.

Just some random thoughts.
 
Look what happens within*** 5 minutes*** of this thread being started, let alone 500 years.
😉
 
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