Do we really want another 500 years of division between Catholics and Protestants?

[Christian_Unity]

Good point to bring up. I mean how come all the Protostent Churches celebrate the day he protested.

Are you speaking about Reformation Day which is celebrated by certain Protestant churches? I think only a few denominations even knows about Reformation Day.

 

[pablope]

Wow, I leave my office for a few hours and come back to all of this participation! There are way too many to respond to; therefore, I will respond to the one that I believe is the most significant. I’ve seen Catholics use Galatians 1 against Protestants; I’ve seen Protestants use Galatians 1 against Catholics. Now how can Protestants preach a different gospel, and still remain your separated brethrens?

…

Hmmm…but before protestatism…there was no different interpretation of the gospel, isn’t it?

Even the Orthodox, Gal 1 is not an issue or point of contention with Catholics, it is only with protestants…so how come? Who really started preaching a new gospel?

 

[CopticChristian]

Wow, I leave my office for a few hours and come back to all of this participation! There are way too many to respond to; therefore, I will respond to the one that I believe is the most significant. I’ve seen Catholics use Galatians 1 against Protestants; I’ve seen Protestants use Galatians 1 against Catholics.

Now how can Protestants preach a different gospel, and still remain your separated brethrens?

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— . - Gal 1

What do you think Billy Graham is praying about? .

:hey_bud: I’m a guy…

CU,

You are confused. You must attend to an understanding of the Church that you are speaking of…this is from the USA Catechism, based on the Universal Catechism…

Biblical Literalism

In the United States a certain number of Christians of many denomina¬tions—often called Fundamentalists—have adopted the supremacy of Scripture as their sole foundation. They also approach Scripture from a viewpoint of private interpretation. This they do in the strictest literal sense without appreciation of the various literary forms that the biblical authors used within the specific cultural circumstances in which they were writing.
The Church’s response to Fundamentalism is that Revelation is transmitted by Apostolic Tradition and Scripture together. The Church and Apostolic Tradition existed before the written New Testament. **Her Apostles preached the Gospel orally before writing it down. **The Apostles appointed bishops to succeed them with the authority to continue their teaching. Scripture alone is insufficient. Authoritative teaching is also needed. That is given to us by the Church’s teaching office. Catholics, then, accept Scripture and Tradition as one “sacred deposit of the Word of God” (CCC, no. 97, citing DV, no. 10). Although this sets us apart from those who believe only in the Bible as their source of revelation, Catholics accept and honor both Scripture and Tradition “with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence” (CCC, no. 82, citing DV, no. 9).

You have accepted a tradition of private interpreation of the Bible and find yourself throwing verses here and there…The Church acknowledges and accepts facts. It is fact that you learned to speak before you wrote and before you could read. The Church accepts that God/Christ spoke prior to the NT being written.

The Catholic Church retains the structures of episcopal leadership and sacramental life that are the gift of Christ to his Church (cf. CCC, nos. 765, 766) and that date back to apostolic times. At the same time, the Catholic Church recognizes that the Holy Spirit uses other churches and ecclesial communities “as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church” (CCC, no. 819; LG, no. 8). Depending on what and how much of the elements of sanctification and truth (UR, no. 3) these communities have retained, they have a certain though imperfect com¬munion with the Catholic Church. There are also real differences. In some cases “there are very weighty differences not only of a historical, sociological, psychological and cultural character, but especially in the interpretation of revealed truth” (UR, no. 19). (The word church applies to those bodies of Christians who have a valid episcopal leadership or hierarchy, while the phrase ecclesial communities refers to those bodies of Christians that do not have an apostolic hierarchy.)

You do not come from a Tradition of Christians with apostolic hierarchy and therefore are considered to be from an ecclesial community, in which the Church honors that these communities are used as a means of Salvation…you are seperated by acceptance of this tradition and not recognizing that from which your tradition was spawned.

 

[CopticChristian]

Do you believe Protestants and Catholics believe in the same God, but preach a different gospel?

CU,

You can answer this yourself, based on your preaching Calvinism in other threads. You ask to start with all saying…we are Christian…as I look back…in time…I see Christ…I am not of Paul, nor Peter…nor Calvin, nor Luther…there is no obstacle in my seeing Christ alone…

In regards to a different gospel…understand that God tells us with the Scripture you use that…

1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

and

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Did you know that according to NLP most people learn Visually and Auditorilly…and this is just an observation that is how we communicate…not by reading, not by writing…but by hearing and seeing…now since we were created in the image and likeness of God and since God tells us He wanted us to Hear and See…not read or write…don’t you think that may cause some attention to be raised as to how you see, believe, feel and imagine that God may understand how we learn since this observation of Visual and Auditory communication is nothing more than observation of creation…

We hear…we see…and God spoke in times past…some was written, not all… and He spoke to us through a Son…and some of that was written too…but all He did was seen and all He did was heard…and that is the deposit of Faith…

There was no great apostasy…as the Mormons teach…and that same deposit of Faith is evident today in what we hear and what we see…

 

[vera_dicere]

I think there’s bigger issues facing Christaindom than whether or not we should be praying to saints or did Mary have other kids.

You beleive in Christ? Awesome.

Everything else is kinda fluff.

Sure, I’m no fan of sola scriptura or the OSAS business, but I’m more concerned with atheists picking us off one ignorant Christian at a time, and how abortion rates for Christians is rather unsettingly high.

I know its hard, but we need to focus on what unites us.

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

What business do you have wanting communion when they can’t even agree on the eucharist?

 

[CopticChristian]

What business do you have wanting communion when they can’t even agree on the eucharist?

Ignatian,

I am not sure to whom you address this. What is clear that in discussing worship that it is essential that we start with the unity of The Eucharist and then all else flows.

Why the Eucharist?..The Catechism says that the Church venerates the Scripture just as she venerates the Body of Christ…

The Eucharist is the living body of Christ…and all worship is centrally located with Christ.

Next…

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Ignatian,

I am not sure to whom you address this. What is clear that in discussing worship that it is essential that we start with the unity of The Eucharist and then all else flows.

Why the Eucharist?..The Catechism says that the Church venerates the Scripture just as she venerates the Body of Christ…

The Eucharist is the living body of Christ…and all worship is centrally located with Christ.

Next…

I’m addressing Christian unity. But thats preciseley my point. When one cannot even agree on the purpose for gathering together and worshipping how can you expect unity?

 

[GreatergoodGod]

There would be a lot of issues like theology that conflict with protestants and Catholics, that needs to be worked through first. Even the protestants are a little bit divided amongst themselves over certain issues.

 

[ThatOrthodoxGuy]

I’m addressing Christian unity. But thats preciseley my point. When one cannot even agree on the purpose for gathering together and worshipping how can you expect unity?

You cant. If you have one who will not come to the table to talk then unity is not possible but thats just my thought

 

[777rak]

Are you speaking about Reformation Day which is celebrated by certain Protestant churches? I think only a few denominations even knows about Reformation Day.

Yea I meant to say don’t. But yea I wonder why some protostent churches don’t ever bring it up/ talk about it. After all if it wasn’t for that there wouldn’t be Protostent churches today.

 

[CopticChristian]

Yea I meant to say don’t. But yea I wonder why some protostent churches don’t ever bring it up/ talk about it. After all if it wasn’t for that there wouldn’t be Protostent churches today.

777,

Imagine Christian Unity, Feel the warmth of comfort in knowing that all wish to be one in Unity and know that while you see this notion of celebration of disruption and in your heart you know that deep in your bones to the very depths that if Christ willed all be one…where does the momentum for this movement to be one come from if not from Christ himself and if we are to assume that the Holy Spirit is to lead us into all truth and if those that look towards unity look to Vatican II…and cite Vatican II…It is the call of the Holy Spirti, and know that this is nothing more than the Body of Christ beckoning and calling for all to hear, for all to see…If those that have disrupted believe that they too are led by the Spirit, where do they honor that calling of Christ in unity…as a body…? For eyes have not seen and ears have not heard…and those that see and hear must recognize from whence it comes…

CU comes to this forum teaching Calvinism, Soveriengty, Forensic Justification…and pulls verses here and there…to unite? by no means…for to him was not given the utterance of Scripture…

Where do we see anywhere in Protestant thought Christ calling as a body, in unity, for all to come home…instead there is celebration of disruption…

 

[robwar]

There would be a lot of issues like theology that conflict with protestants and Catholics, that needs to be worked through first. Even the protestants are a little bit divided amongst themselves over certain issues.

its not a little bit but a lot a bit! Protestantism is spread out all over the place it ranges from Quaker to Pentecostal snake handlers and everything else in-between. The OP wants to come on a Catholic forum and basically blame Catholics for disunity but the OP is not looking at his own house, Protestantism and the big disunity there is between Protestants.

 

[robwar]

Do you believe Protestants and Catholics believe in the same God, but preach a different gospel?

I think you already know this answer. My Methodist Baptism was considered a valid sacramental baptism so I don’t think I need to say any more. You question is loaded and you want Catholics to agree with your brand of Calvinism in the name of Christian Unity which I am not going to do. I’ve found my home in the Catholic Church. There are many good and wonderful and sincere Protestants but for the whole and complete truth, it is in the Catholic Church.

 

[robwar]

CU comes to this forum teaching Calvinism, Soveriengty, Forensic Justification…and pulls verses here and there…to unite? by no means…for to him was not given the utterance of Scripture…

Where do we see anywhere in Protestant thought Christ calling as a body, in unity, for all to come home…instead there is celebration of disruption…

Yes, you hit the nail on the head. Being told that Catholics are the cause of disunity in the Christian body is bogus argument and coming from a Protestant disingenuine at best.

 

[Christian_Unity]

Yea I meant to say don’t. But yea I wonder why some protostent churches don’t ever bring it up/ talk about it. After all if it wasn’t for that there wouldn’t be Protostent churches today.

As you probably know, most modern day Protestant Christians (including pastors) are very unknowledgeable about church history. The lack of knowledge of church history is one of the reasons I believe modern day Protestants have a hard time with fellowshipping with Catholic siblings. Many modern day Protestants don’t even understand what justification by faith alone is all about; therefore, they have no knowledge about Reformation Day.

 

[Christian_Unity]

Hmmm…but before protestatism…there was no different interpretation of the gospel, isn’t it?

Even the Orthodox, Gal 1 is not an issue or point of contention with Catholics, it is only with protestants…so how come? Who really started preaching a new gospel?

I think the first century church in Sacred Scripture began with multiple interpertations of the gospel in which the Apostle Paul wrote Romans and Galatians to help direct the church in regards to gospel errors. It is interesting that Paul rebuked Peter on a gospel issue in the book of Galatians.

 

[CatherineOH]

…Now, I see a bunch of people following someone who thought they knew better on this point or that and splintering the Church in a million pieces.
I hate to see that the early Christians were fed to the lions for fighting heresy and here we sit wanting it to get better by just getting along.
Phooey. They stuck their necks out and so should we.

Where does it end? Who do we follow? Why is Martin Luther any more right than any other protestant minister in any of these zillions of little churches around town? Or Joseph Smith?

Jesus wanted one church and he promised to stay with it and he did and still does.

Yes, that is true. However, too many people are ignoring the history because they don’t want to face the facts.
Lutherans follow Luther. I honestly can’t understand it.
I am not trying to be rude, just honest. Why him? He made his point, he made some not so great ones as well, so let it be that. Why follow a church with HIS name on it?

This is not an attack on YOU. It is a question I ask of all people in any other Church.
If Jesus promised to stay with his Church until the end of time, then why abandon it?

Remember that they (other Christian believers of the trinity) consider Jesus’ church to include ALL denominations, not just the one centered in Rome.

Remember too of what Jesus promised. Matthew 16:18 “…and all the powers of hell will not conquer it.” We must greet our fellow humans as Brethren with Love. To turn the other cheek does not being weak in doing so.

 

[Christian_Unity]

I think you already know this answer. My Methodist Baptism was considered a valid sacramental baptism so I don’t think I need to say any more. You question is loaded and you want Catholics to agree with your brand of Calvinism in the name of Christian Unity which I am not going to do. I’ve found my home in the Catholic Church. There are many good and wonderful and sincere Protestants but for the whole and complete truth, it is in the Catholic Church.

I am definitely not promoting Calvinism. The issues of a Calvinist’s understanding of predestination, the sovereignty of God, and free will should NEVER divide the body of Christ. Most Protestants under these issues very similar to what most Catholics believe on these very difficult issues. A step toward unity in the body of Christ is to learn to disagree agreeably on many issues. When we defend our personal view of Christianity in too strong of a way, the result will be disunity and division in the body of Christ.

 

[Christian_Unity]

Remember that they (other Christian believers of the trinity) consider Jesus’ church to include ALL denominations, not just the one centered in Rome.

Remember too of what Jesus promised. Matthew 16:18 “…and all the powers of hell will not conquer it.” We must greet our fellow humans as Brethren with Love. To turn the other cheek does not being weak in doing so.

Yep, Protestants see the church to not be an exclusive denomination or branch of Christianity. We see the church universal to be those in Christ from all the different denominations and branches of Christianity. I think you see this concept in the Sacred Scriptures… because there are verses in Scripture which speak of multiple churches.