Do we receive Judgement the moment we die?

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Deo_Gratias42 said:
No salvation outside the Church means that anyone who is saved, is saved through the Church and everyone in Heaven in Catholic. There are no exceptions. Non-Catholics can be saved, but if they are it is through the Catholic Church and not their Protestant religion.
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I was taught it was an exception. I suppose I was taught wrong.
 
Careful saying that salvation is completely impossible outside the Chirch. The Church has also canonized some people in the Orthodox Churches who promoted orthodox Catholic Union
 
pietrocontolini said:
Careful saying that salvation is completely impossible outside the Chirch. The Church has also canonized some people in the Orthodox Churches who promoted orthodox Catholic Union
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I don’t believe the Church has ever canonized a non-Catholic.
 
pietrocontolini said:
Careful saying that salvation is completely impossible outside the Chirch. The Church has also canonized some people in the Orthodox Churches who promoted orthodox Catholic Union
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Well, the Council of Trent said that anyone who says there is salvation outside of the Church, let them be anathema, so I’ll stick with what the Church teaches.
 
paulrxp said:
So the point is, nobody experiencing the torment in Hell probably wants to be there. If they had another choice or chance, they would most certainly repent and choose to be with God, but immediate judgement upon death closes the book and the account for everyone, both sinner and saint.
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Of course they want to be there…they chose it on their own by living a life without God in it, thats what hell is, an existence without God. Hell is also said to be locked from the inside, implying those that are there, are content being there and would not have it any other way. These people would not find heaven comfortable, as they dont know God.

I know it hards to fathom, but some people are just more content without God, they live their entire earthly lives that way, why would they want their afterlife to be any different?
 
Deo_Gratias42 said:
Well, the Council of Trent said that anyone who says there is salvation outside of the Church, let them be anathema, so I’ll stick with what the Church teaches.
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We’re not saying that there’s salvation outside of the Church! We’re saying what the Church has said – that the interpretation that claims that EENS says “anybody who is not a Catholic cannot be saved” is inaccurate.
 
Brendan said:
The reason that we can change is that we are, on this Earth, temporal beings.

When our time on Earth ends, we begin to live the eternal NOW. We, like the angels, cease to be able to change our wills, they are forever set.
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Humans do not live the Eternal Now, only God does. Our lives begin a moment in time and continue on “eternally” but we will experience some kind of time in the afterlife because humans are not infinite, but finite and so can change what they do. Time is the measure of change.
 
mikekle said:
So, you dont think there is anyone in hell that regrets their earthly lives? If they had a choice, they would be right where they want to be…in a place(hell) without God?
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Anyone who goes to hell deserves so, and chooses so.
 
pietrocontolini said:
I am confused on the position on this. From my understanding of free will, humans are not like angels, as in we are an embodiment of a soul, so we are capable of change, whereas angels cannot, and they get one and only one chance to accept God or to reject him. The idea that at the moment of one’s death, we are sent to Hell or Heaven (with a possible stop in Purgatory) immediately doesn’t make much sense. As humans, we are subject to change, and it is impossible for us to say once and for all that we reject God. However (From my understanding) as soon as we die we are capable of that. Wouldn’t that make it seem like we have a decision after death to choose God or to reject him? Alive on earth, we do not have a full understanding of God and his death for our salvation. However once we die don’t we? We would certainly make different chooses had we understood. It would seem to me to stand to reason that after death we have an option. I am really really confused.

Pietro
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The arbitrariness of a finite earthly life – some people live over a hundred years, some live less than 9 months – poses a difficulty to what I am about to say. But in general, an earthly life allows an individual person to gravitate towards God or away from God. Other ways of saying this: towards Love or against Love; Towards selflessness or towards selfishness; saying “Thy will be done” or “My will be done.” Over a series of choices – over a lifetime – a person develops a “fundamental option” of dependence on either God or one’s self. At the end of life, if there is no place for God, then the state of the soul reaps the consequences of that: a final choice of a life without God.
 
A note about the arbitrariness above.

Catholics are not Calvinists. We are not born (or conceived) to be damned. We come into existence with Original Sin, but this is a deprivation of an elevated nature of grace that God wanted humanity to share in – it is not an additional punishment or “stain” in the sense of destroying the Image of God in us.

No person goes to hell unless he or she chooses so: That is, a voluntary ***choice ***against God ultimately separates one from God.
 
catholic1seeks said:
Anyone who goes to hell deserves so, and chooses so.
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I agree, and anyone in hell is content being there as well, I dont believe they would be content in heaven, it is something they do not know, God is someone they do not know, therefore, they would prefer a place without God.

I think thats why they say Hell is locked from the inside…no one is desiring to leave.
 
mikekle said:
Of course they want to be there…they chose it on their own by living a life without God in it, thats what hell is, an existence without God. Hell is also said to be locked from the inside, implying those that are there, are content being there and would not have it any other way. These people would not find heaven comfortable, as they dont know God.

I know it hards to fathom, but some people are just more content without God, they live their entire earthly lives that way, why would they want their afterlife to be any different?
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I agree with you. People who are in Hell condemned themselves, it wasn’t God that made that decision. I have a few friends that have intentionally with full knowledge chose to cut themselves off from God. However I believe they would have truly reconsidered their choices in their Earthly lives if they knew swimming in Hell fire with the demons for eternity awaited them after death. I’m quite confident these Godless friends of mine will be screaming for Jesus when the lights go out. No doubt in my mind 😛
Our Catholic faith compels us to reach these people. I think there will be no better testimony and account for our own souls when we’re all judged to be able to say to the Lord, I led them from darkness to the feet of your mercy.
 
paulrxp said:
I agree with you. People who are in Hell condemned themselves, it wasn’t God that made that decision. I have a few friends that have intentionally with full knowledge chose to cut themselves off from God. However I believe they would have truly reconsidered their choices in their Earthly lives if they knew swimming in Hell fire with the demons for eternity awaited them after death. I’m quite confident these Godless friends of mine will be screaming for Jesus when the lights go out. No doubt in my mind 😛
Our Catholic faith compels us to reach these people. I think there will be no better testimony and account for our own souls when we’re all judged to be able to say to the Lord, I led them from darkness to the feet of your mercy.
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Im not sure I agree those kind of people would call out for Jesus in that situation, some may, but Id say majority would not, if they did not want God in their earthly lives, why would they suddenly want him in the afterlife?

The most severe ‘punishment’ in hell is separation from God…certain people are already living like that in our world (by their own choice too).

I believe this kind of thing is resolved before one goes to their eternal destination though, I think those last few earthly milliseconds between our lives and death SEEM much longer to us actually going thru it and ID say quite a lot is accomplished during this time, this would be the time for them to call out for Jesus and him to save them, but on the other hand, Im sure there are many people who experience this and still choose an afterlife without him.

Plus, those in hell right now, would not have the demons as company, as they are not even there yet, but even when they do arrive after Jesus comes again, I doubt they would be on the same ‘level’ or plane as human souls…the sins against God satan and the demons are guilty of, are something NO human could ever even attempt to commit, no matter how hard we tried or wanted it, there is just no way any of us could ever attempt to ‘take over heaven’ or take over Gods throne, we do not have that kind of power.
 
pietrocontolini said:
I am confused on the position on this. From my understanding of free will, humans are not like angels, as in we are an embodiment of a soul, so we are capable of change, whereas angels cannot, and they get one and only one chance to accept God or to reject him. The idea that at the moment of one’s death, we are sent to Hell or Heaven (with a possible stop in Purgatory) immediately doesn’t make much sense. As humans, we are subject to change, and it is impossible for us to say once and for all that we reject God. However (From my understanding) as soon as we die we are capable of that. Wouldn’t that make it seem like we have a decision after death to choose God or to reject him?
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Humans and angels are creatures. Both are created by God. Angels are spirit, like our souls are spirit. Once created by God, our souls and angels are both immortal, we live forever. The question is where will that be for all eternity, heaven or hell. At the end of the world, (final judgement) body and soul for us are reunited… either in heaven or hell… forever

Re: the test.
Both Angels and humans are tested by God.

Angels have already gone through their test. Their test is over. The results of that test can’t be reversed. There is no second chance for them. Those who passed the test are glorified forever, those who failed are condemned forever.

Humans as well, go through our test in this life. We pass or fail here in this life. There is no second chance for us on the other side. Purgatory is NOT a second chance. Those in purgatory are already saved. There is no going in reverse. 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 , they are guranteed heaven. People who die in mortal sin don’t go to purgatory. They go straight to hell as scripture states

When we die we are judged, AND we know then whether we go to heaven or hell for all eternity.
p:
Alive on earth, we do not have a full understanding of God and his death for our salvation. However once we die don’t we? We would certainly make different choices had we understood. It would seem to me to stand to reason that after death we have an option. I am really really confused.

Pietro
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On this side of eternity we make our choices. That’s where the testing takes place. That’s why faith is important.

Heb 11:1
faith = confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

When we die, we see everything as it is.
  • If we are in heaven we are safe for all eternity. We have complete assurance for we see God as He is
  • Those in hell, see things as it is for THEM. And they have no hope of anything ever changing for them. …forever
 
i do not understand why some one would think that human minds and wills that deliberately murder and rape others, or that force themselves sexually on innocent children can ever be considered content until they repent of those sinful desires and sinful actions.

deliberately living contrary to the nature God created so that human beings could be perfectly united to Him and to each other is not my idea of being content. i may be misunderstanding how others are defining the word content.

content, as i define it in my current usage, means not wanting, not desiring, not possessing everything a person could ever want.

the souls in hell never experience such freedom, freedom from want, freedom from desire, freedom that comes with having everything a person could ever want.

hell is a perpetual state of wanting and never attaining, not just that of course but definitely including that. that is the opposite of being content as i use the word here. souls that end up in hell, were not content in this world and they are certainly never going to be content in hell. an integral part of all sin is wanting something.

that does NOT mean that wanting something is a sin. wanting what someone should not have or that opposes the purpose God had when He created human nature is the kind of wanting that is sinful. wanting heaven is not a sin.
 
as for the OP’s question, yes we receive judgment the moment our soul leaves our mortal body.
 
eddie_too said:
i do not understand why some one would think that human minds and wills that deliberately murder and rape others, or that force themselves sexually on innocent children can ever be considered content until they repent of those sinful desires and sinful actions.

deliberately living contrary to the nature God created so that human beings could be perfectly united to Him and to each other is not my idea of being content. i may be misunderstanding how others are defining the word content.

content, as i define it in my current usage, means not wanting, not desiring, not possessing everything a person could ever want.

the souls in hell never experience such freedom, freedom from want, freedom from desire, freedom that comes with having everything a person could ever want.

hell is a perpetual state of wanting and never attaining, not just that of course but definitely including that. that is the opposite of being content as i use the word here. souls that end up in hell, were not content in this world and they are certainly never going to be content in hell. an integral part of all sin is wanting something.

that does NOT mean that wanting something is a sin. wanting what someone should not have or that opposes the purpose God had when He created human nature is the kind of wanting that is sinful. wanting heaven is not a sin.
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I understand what you are saying, but the people that do those things, they do intentionally seek it out, so I guess you could say they are content doing those things, they may not like the risk or getting caught, but if they manage to go decades or their entire lives without being caught, I think they would be fine with that, and probably keep doing it.

As a human being, they are content sinning in that way, it may be due to various reasons, maybe they were abused a child or they just like to have power and control over another person.

But I would definitely say these people are content NOT having God in their lives, if that is true, then they would not be truly sorry for any of their sins and could not be forgiven…if they are content in this life without God, why would hell be any different for them, its still an existence without God?
 
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