Do we take Genesis literally?

  • Thread starter Thread starter hilarycotter
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
H

hilarycotter

Guest
For example Genesis 3:1-4

Now the serpent was more subtile than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Eve ate and she did not die. Taking everything at face value the serpent told the truth, God lied.

Does this indicate to us that we are not to take Genesis literally?

Please forgive these somewhat ignorant questions:)
 
There was no immediate physical death, although physical death was introduced as a result of the fall. However there was a spiritual death in Adam and Eve’s relationship with God. God did not lie. Jesus said, “Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Hell.”

However God’s love is shown that even as Adam and Eve died, God promised ultimate victory.
 
Thanks SyCarl. The way I understood it was that there was a spiritual death that day; so thanks for your clarification.

However, I am wondering if because they didn’t die immediately, that perhaps the author of Genesis (Moses I think), is trying to teach us to read Genesis not primarily as history, but primarily as a cosmology-in other words it is to tell us man’s relationship to God and vice versa - who we are, where we came from, why are we hear, etc.

Am I completely off base here?
 
For example Genesis 3:1-4

Eve ate and she did not die. Taking everything at face value the serpent told the truth, God lied.
yes she did die. she is not alive today, so she died, physically. the original plan for Creation was that the man and woman and their offspring would not die but would live forever. When Jesus descended to the dead, the “limbo of the fathers” after his death he freed her and all those righteous who came after her from the spiritual death and separation from God and took them to heaven where they live eternally, and where in the course of time their souls and bodies will be reunited at the end of time.
 
For example Genesis 3:1-4

Now the serpent was more subtile than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Eve ate and she did not die. Taking everything at face value the serpent told the truth, God lied.

Does this indicate to us that we are not to take Genesis literally?

Please forgive these somewhat ignorant questions:)
Yes she did die, but the punishment wasnt how we would expect, it was a gradual death. They went from care free to a life of hard labor and suffering and eventual physical death.
God had a rescue plan in place and gives mention to it a few verses later in Gen 3:15.
Paul also says in Rom 3:
25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
God in all His goodness and love showed mercy by delaying the deserved punishments, and thus providing a chance for mankind to be reconciled.
 
I am listening right now to a teriffic talk by Catholic apologist John Martignoni on this very subject. You can download the mp3 of this talk for free by going to his website at this link and looking for the talk “Catholics and the Bible”:

biblechristiansociety.com/

Make sure to check out ALL his talks! 👍
 
Thanks guys! CatholicDude, I think you hit the nail on the head. I would expect the punishment to be swift, and as it wasn’t I felt it was more a non literal death - ie a spiritual death as opposed to a physical one.

So, let me pose the question again - is Genesis meant to be taken literally? I realize we can read it as a history, but not a scientific explanation.

Is this correct?
 
Can someone show me the verse where it says Eve shall die immediatley?
 
For example Genesis 3:1-4

Now the serpent was more subtile than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Eve ate and she did not die. Taking everything at face value the serpent told the truth, God lied.

Does this indicate to us that we are not to take Genesis literally?

Please forgive these somewhat ignorant questions:)
  • In the statement “WW1 literally happened”, it would be better to say “WW1 really/actually happened” - this is the way in which “literally” is used in many questions, such as those about the Bl. Eucharist
  • As applied to these, & many other, verses - the literal sense of the Biblical text is not the same thing as the actual reality of the thing named.
    “Serpent” in the text is used in its everyday “dictionary sense”: the text is not a code, it is not a way of saying “gremlin”, “mousetrap”, or something equally remote from the meaning of the Hebrew word nachash.
That is the literal sense: in one sense 🙂 A clearer way to describe it, might be to speak of the “proper” sense. - that is, what the word properly means, apart from contexts which build on its “proper sense”.

As to whether there was an actual reptile, endowed with the faculties of thought & speech, in an actual garden - this is a separate question. The narrative talks about a serpent - but it does not follow, that it is stating that the serpent, garden, & so on were as actually real as the defeat of Germany in WW1.

Which would seem to many people to be a denial of the literal sense of the text - because “literal” is understood to mean “actually existing”.

IOW - the fact that a word is used in its literal sense in a text (in the Bible or out of it) is not the same thing as asserting its actual existence within human history.

What is a dragon ? A large, ferocious beast, probably winged, definitely scaly, with a serpentine body, which is wise, benign (in China), malign (in a lot of other literature). IOW, the word “dragon” has an ascertainable sense - but it does not follow, that dragons ever actually existed. So knowing that a word is being used to mean a particular thing, is not the same as knowwing the thing is or was actually existent.

However, the non-existence of scaly, serpentine, etc., beasts called dragons, does not mean it is not possible to use the word in a transferred sense - as when someone is called “an old dragon”. The phrase does not imply that the person referred to has a scaly body, claws, etc. - nor is understood as doing so. The reference is to the person’s attititude & manner, not the bodily form.The word** is used** in the proper sense - the meaning is a “transferred” one.

All understandings of words in texts have to start with the “proper sense” of the words used. Unless we start by using nachash in its "proper" sense, the rest of the text, however mythological it may be, can’t be understood. That is not at all the same as saying that the thing named by the word - i.e. the serpent - was a real being. Its reality is within the narrative in Gen.3 - not within history. What are all too real in history, are temptation, & sin: the form of the narrative is that of a myth - but the theological content, is no myth. Fortunately for us, neither is God.

Why is a myth used ? Perhaps a myth was the best way of conveying the truth God wished to reveal.
 
So, let me pose the question again - is Genesis meant to be taken literally? I realize we can read it as a history, but not a scientific explanation.

Is this correct?
Keep in mind Genesis is neither a history TEXTBOOK nor a science TEXTBOOK. Rather it is a historical account written in a format general reading by the average joe. That does not mean parts of Genesis are made up, myth or fairy tale.
 
It is a real history.

It has a literal meaning.

Concerning the death of Eve and Adam, I think that I John 5: 16 helps me, that is, “There is such a thing as deadly sin” (NAB). The RSV reads “mortal sin.”

Eve and Adam died when they did not eat from the Tree of Life, but took from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

They died.

Literal does not mean physical.

Their spiritual life with God died.
 
I think that Genesis needs to be taken partially literally because we know there was an Adam and and Eve, we know that there was a fall, and we know that God created the world. Now, with regards to the Creation story, I think it must be looked at in a way that is not too extreme. While we can not deny that God created the world out of nothing, I think that we shouldn’t take the fundamentalist view of he created the world and everything in it in seven days. So, I think that there should be a balance. However, I think that Holy Mother Church has not taken an official position on the 7 day idea. Correct me if I am wrong, but one may still believe that God created the world in seven days.
 
Did the people that translated Genesis for the NAB believe that Anything was literal about Adam and Eve?

Do they believe that there really was an Adma and an Eve and that they really are our parents as the Catholic Church teaches or do they just not believe that?
 
Does this indicate to us that we are not to take Genesis literally?
The story of the man and the woman in the garden is a myth. It is an imaginative story that uses symbols to explore a realty beyond our comprehension. The reality being explored is “Why do human beings suffer?” In its present position, coming after a story nowhere near as old, the question becomes even more mysterious. Given the beliefs that God is all loving and all powerful, that God made humans human beings in God’s own image, and that we are very good, why do we suffer? You would think God would have created things in an order that didn’t involve suffering. Why pain in childbirth? Why death? Suffering appears to be part of the order of things. All of this is very mysterious. How can our belief that God is all loving and all powerful be made compatible with our experience of suffering?

The author who cose to explore this question does not have the option of giving an historical explanation. He doesn’t know a historical explanation. The author makes it very evident that his genre is not historical by his obvious use of symbols.

What in the story is an obvious symbol? The tree of a knowledge of good and evil as a symbol. Such a tree does not in fact exist in the order of reality. Notice there is no apple tree in this story. There is a tree of a knowledge of good and evil and a tree of life - another obvious symbol. If one can eat every day from the tree of life, one will not die. A third obvious symbol is the talking snake. Notice too that the snake is* not* referred to as the devil. The snake is a character in the plot, just as God, the man, and the woman are characters in the plot.

It is not unusual to ask “How do you know that these are symbols? Maybe back at the beginning of creation there were trees like that and snakes could talk.” This story does not date back to the beginning of time. The author is not contemporary whith the dawn of creation. This is a very sophisticated story. At the dawn of civilization society did not have a highly sophisticated view of marriage as expressed in Genesis 2:24. Neither farming nor the establishment of towns was an early development in prehistoric life, yet the fourth chapter of Genesis reports that Cain, who tilled the soil, married and built a town, all while separated from the family of his birth. This story, like the story in which God creates the world in a workweek, reflects a much more highly sophisticated society than would a story about the actual first human beings on the face of the earth. However, when we understand the literary form of the story, questions that presume historicity appear irrelevant. The text will simply not support a claim of historicity.
 
Do you mean that Jonah and Job and and… are all just fictional stories? Isn’t fiction just untrue made up stories? I think maybe you read a book recently about reading the Bible. Right?🙂
 
I think that Genesis needs to be taken partially literally because we know there was an Adam and and Eve, we know that there was a fall, and we know that God created the world. Now, with regards to the Creation story, I think it must be looked at in a way that is not too extreme. While we can not deny that God created the world out of nothing, I think that we shouldn’t take the fundamentalist view of he created the world and everything in it in seven days. So, I think that there should be a balance. However, I think that Holy Mother Church has not taken an official position on the 7 day idea. Correct me if I am wrong, but one may still believe that God created the world in seven days.
Yes you can believe in a literal seven day, you can even believe it was instantaneous (which is where I lean).
Did the people that translated Genesis for the NAB believe that Anything was literal about Adam and Eve?

Do they believe that there really was an Adma and an Eve and that they really are our parents as the Catholic Church teaches or do they just not believe that?
There were some very liberal “scholars” and their footnotes make you wonder just what “Catholic Church” they belong to.
 
I think the ones that read the Genesis in a way that is not literaly are protestans. The bible needs an authority, otherwise anyone that read it would be tempted to believe that the bible is a book that has to be infallible in history or science. However it is a spiritual book with spiritual trues. If you read a math book would you look for spiritual stuffs in there?
The bible is an spiritual book and therefore it dosent have to be exclusively or totally about science and history but about spiritual stuffs, and spititual knowledge.
 
Most of Genesis is to be taken symbolically. It wasn’t written until 2,000 years after Noah’s Ark actually happened, passed down by oral tradition. Alot can change in that amount of time…

Don’t tell me that we ate an apple and God got mad, because that sounds really bizarre. Why would God kill all the innocent childrren and animals? All animals, great and small, the Lord God drowned them all…So Noah’s Ark is more of a myth. This is what I believe and I’m just sharing that. Nothing you say can change my mind.
 
It is De Fide Dogma for Catholics to believe that Adam and Eve were the first parents of all of us.

If you don’t believe that then yuou don’t believe what the Catholic Church teaches and believes.

You can still believe in evolution–but on the Fact of Adam and Eve being the first parents of us all a Catholic has no leeway!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top