Do women need access to contraceptives?

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asia53 said:
One problem–Naprotechnology isn’t covered by all insurance companies. My own insurance provider doesn’ t cover it. So your emphatic “no”, doesn’t work for everyone. We all know the costs of medical treatments. :eek:

Contraceptives are a medicine, a very evil one, but still a medicine. Not all medicines heal, as you stated. For example: Tamoxifen-drug used to interrupt the natural process of the hormone estrogen , preventing breast cancer. By your description, not a healing drug, either.
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I would still recommend looking into the cost of Naprotechnology or stating what it is if you have.

You are not understanding me. Here are the facts about about Tamoxifen, which is not a contraceptive.

cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Therapy/tamoxifen

Peace,
Ed
 
Elizabeth502 said:
That all forms of contraception (including barrier methods) are “intrinsically evil.”
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I think I understand a little better what you’re saying…but the litigation representing Catholic objections doesn’t involve sweeping efforts to ban contraception outside of the sphere of Catholic institutions. It involves a request that Catholic institutions be free not to offer contraception coverage.
 
edwest2 said:
Contraceptives do not fall into the healing category. Their primary purpose is to inhibit the natural function of the average healthy human being.
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I understand what you are saying, edwest. You’re misunderstanding me.

Tamoxifen prevents the natural function of the body–production of estrogen, the side effect being the possible prevention of breast cancer. By your definition, this isn’t a healing drug.
Bear in mind, healthy people with a history of breast cancer in their family, or who have a high probability of developing breast cancer can have Tamoxifen prescribed for them.

For that matter, pain relievers fall into this category. Pain is a natural function of the body, tells us something is wrong–infection, injury, etc. Using your definition, pain relievers aren’t a healing drug.
 
daisybee said:
I think I understand a little better what you’re saying…but the litigation representing Catholic objections doesn’t involve sweeping efforts to ban contraception outside of the sphere of Catholic institutions. It involves a request that Catholic institutions be free not to offer contraception coverage.
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I know that, Daisy. (I thought that was clear.)

I’m referring to the broad statement by a poster on Page One. The U.S. public doesn’t buy it, and they’re not going to. People understand the concept of religious liberty (even when don’t agree with it) much better than the assertion that every contraceptive device is intrinsically evil.
 
Okay; thanks. I didn’t realize you were referring back to the first page.

I agree with your three points. I’m a little hesitant to quickly dismiss the possibility of legislation on behalf of beliefs of a minority group; that may sometimes be necessary. The more connections that can be made from the issues to the common good, the better, but it may not always be possible.

I’m thinking of the recent issue in Germany regarding the restrictions against circumcisions in the Jewish community. Also the possibility that Irish law may soon require priests to violate the seal of the confessional if someone confesses sin that is a violation of the law. (Priests would then be required to report to authorities what the penitent told them.) I suppose arguments surrounding religious freedom could be developed for these issues, but when the attacks are so direct such as these, targeted legislation may be necessary.
 
Blacksword said:
Wow, just wow…excuse me, but do you think it’s really your call as to the state of her soul, or anyone else’s, for that matter? The fact of the matter is there are plenty of women who do need contraceptives like the pill for real medical reasons having nothing to do with contraception, for real health needs. I doubt, as one poster made the largely mere intellectual distinction between “hormone therapy” and “contraceptives” that Gates, or most regular people too, would bother with drawing with so fine a brush as to distinguish between the two.

Your comment I find offensive, it is presumptuous and judgmental in the extreme. I urge you and others here with similar thoughts to let God do the ultimate judging; it’s His job, thanks!
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What you find offensive does not matter at all. What matters is that the use and promotion of contraceptives are an offense against God. It is clear beyond any doubts that by promotion of contraceptives Gate is going against the dogmatic teachings of the Catholic Church. Doing so is a mortal sin. The teachings of the Catholic Church on moral sin is very clear - those who knowingly engage in mortal sin and who do not seek forgiveness are going to go to Hell. We do not judge Gates ourselves. However, according to the most basic teachings of the Catholic Church through her own actions Gates is seeking Hell.

Ran
 
It’s so amazing that smart people can fall for nonsense like this. She’s going to pledge more money than all of us here will earn in our lifetime to get third world women dependent on a manufactured product. Contrast that with how Mother Theresa dealt with the same issue.

Poverty and fertility ARE serious issues. It IS a legitimately serious thing for desperately poor people to have no means of regulating births. Mother Theresa recognized that too and her solution was not to provide free samples of a product that these women would then become hooked on for life (that’s drug dealer behavior). Make me wonder how much the Gates have invested in Big Med. Instead MT taught them a simplified Billing’s method of NFP that costs nothing and needs no more technology to practice than a role or toiler paper and the ability to count to three.

There is a recognized phenomenon in demography where high fertility poor cultures have an explosion of population during the generation or two between the introduction of good nutrition, sanitation and medicine and a natural (no contraception needed) lowering of total fertility rates. People like Gates fail to recognize that this is a temporary time of transition, not a looming catastrophe that will continue indefinately unless an outside benefactor steps in with big bucks. Rich people always seem to settle for writing big checks as a substitute for charity. Wouldn’t it be nice if they’d do some more homework first? My message to Mrs. Gates: Ask to spend a week in rural India with Mother Theresa’s order, keep mouth closed and just watch and listen. Only then will you find out what these women REALLY need.
 
No Controversy? Facts for Melinda Gates

factsformelindagates.com

Melinda Gates favours depo provera. But this drug may increase AIDS transmission. University of Washington
researchers studied women in Africa and found that the use of depart provera doubled the transmission rates of HIV. 3 mechanisms were cited, hormonal contraceptives weaken the immune system and recur a woman’s ability to repel HIV infection, hormonal contraceptions cause vaginal loaning to thin and develop tiny tears that increase exposure to HIV during sex, and women who are HIV positive and take hormonal contraceptives create more HIV virus making them more infectious. These drugs you want to give in HIV torn countries?

Depo provera may be linked to osteoporosis. Exerts have linked oral contraception to HIV transmission.

Researchers from the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center published a study in the 2012 Journal of Cancer Research. They looked specifically at depo provera and found it doubles the risk of breast cancer. Developing countries do not have routine screening for breast cancer in many places, why push this drug when it is associated with so many health problems into already health torn countries?

These are the leading causes of death of children under 5 in developing countries, birth control, condoms will not help these children because they do not solve the problem of poverty

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
I know this isn’t exactly what was being discussed - but someone said that women do not ‘need’ contraception - some of us do ‘need’ it for medical reasons. I get it that this is not why Mrs. Gates was pleging the money to help, but there are women who benefit greatly (not because of the brith control effect necessarily) but because of the other beneficial things that the pill can do to help their health status. Some people on here seem to believe there is never ever a good reason for a women - especially one who is married to be on the pill but I can tell you with out a doubt there are very licit reasons that are even accepted by the Church.
God Bless
Rye
 
ryecroft said:
I know this isn’t exactly what was being discussed - but someone said that women do not ‘need’ contraception - some of us do ‘need’ it for medical reasons. I get it that this is not why Mrs. Gates was pleging the money to help, but there are women who benefit greatly (not because of the brith control effect necessarily) but because of the other beneficial things that the pill can do to help their health status. Some people on here seem to believe there is never ever a good reason for a women - especially one who is married to be on the pill but I can tell you with out a doubt there are very licit reasons that are even accepted by the Church.
God Bless
Rye
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Provide any quote that Melinda Gates has said the reason she wants to provide contraception to the developing world is for a proposed medical benefit?

The only medical benefit could be for the birth control pill for long or painful periods. Do you think that is the reason Melinda Gates wants to provide contraception?

Melinda Gates believes more contraception use can decrease poverty. Longitudinal review of women in Chile over 50 years found that the most vital factor in reducing infant and maternal morality and improving maternal health was better education not contraception

Gates foundation also discusses increase of global population. With a population of 9 billion the planet will not be overpopulated

Entire population of the world could fit in state of Arkansas in 2003

What the Gates foundation do not admit in their strategy is that sources say the global population will level out at around 9.2 billion in 2050 and start to decline. In 1990 it was said the world could feed 35 billion

Raj Krishna, Indian economist has said India could provide the whole world’s food supply by increasing crop yields

Look at this concentrated population graphic

wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/thecrescat/files/2012/07/the-worlds-population-concentrated-small.png

Birth control pills have been grouped with asbestos and tobacco as a class 1 carcinogen by the UN

Contraception may create more medical problems than medical benefits

Melinda Gates favours deep provera, the box of this drug says
Women who use Depro-Provera Contraceptive Injection may lose significant bone mineral density. Bone loss is greater with increased duration of use and may not be completely reversible
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rxlist.com/depo-provera-drug.htm

Depo Provera is the drug many sex offenders use for chemical castration, that is how powerful the drug is

May increase AIDS transmission. Depro prover does not protect against HIV. University of Washington
researchers studied women in Africa and found that the use of depart provera doubled the transmission rates of HIV. 3 mechanisms were cited, hormonal contraceptives weaken the immune system and recur a woman’s ability to repel HIV infection, hormonal contraceptions cause vaginal lining to thin and develop tiny tears that increase exposure to HIV during sex, and women who are HIV positive and take hormonal contraceptives create more HIV virus making them more infectious. These drugs you want to give in HIV torn countries?

Depo provera may be linked to osteoporosis. Exerts have linked oral contraception to HIV transmission.

Researchers from the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center published a study in the 2012 Journal of Cancer Research. They looked specifically at depo provera and found it doubles the risk of breast cancer. Developing countries do not have routine screening for breast cancer in many places, why push this drug when it is associated with so many health problems into already health torn countries?

These are the leading causes of death of children under 5 in developing countries, birth control, condoms will not help these children because they do not solve the problem of poverty

 
_Abyssinia said:
Provide any quote that Melinda Gates has said the reason she wants to provide contraception to the developing world is for a proposed medical benefit?

/IMG]
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I’m guessing you missed where I said:

“I get it that this is not why Mrs. Gates was pleging the money to help” (referring to the medical benefits that can be provided by the pill. In my case I’m greatful for the pill because it has actually given me the chance to get pregnant again. If I hadn’t had the pill, they would have had to have done a hysterectomy years ago. Even with tens of thousands of dollars of tests and surgeries, they still couldn’t figure out why ever since I began having a period I would bleed so hard or so long - to thepoint of needing to get transfusions - so we’re not just talking some ‘extra cramps’ (which I roll my eyes about when I see a male comment on - saying - oh she’s just taking it because she’s got a little heavy bleeding or has an extra cramp or two…I honestly believe that if most men could experience two hours of any woman having a bad period, they’d be crying and begging God to make them not have to endure the pain - won’t even go into when I hear or read about their comments regarding natural child birth!)
My one big point was this, there are women out there for whom the Church o.k.s the use of birth control - and there are those of us who need it for other reasons than to keep from getting pregnant. Honestly, I wish I had never needed to take it, but it has been the best way to keep me with all the parts necessary to be able to have a child. Please pray that in the next year or so, I’ll get the o.k. to try to carry again and be successful. Just please, even though I agree the majority of women use it as a form of birth control, please remember there are quite a few of us out here who respect ourselves, our bodies and yet do still use the pill. Yes there are risks - I know of no medications that don’t come with at lest a page or two of risks and possible side effects. Please don’t assume that because a woman (married or not) takes the pill or another form of ABC that she automatically sins - so to me the question of do women need access to contraceptives is a big YES!
God Bless
Rye
 
I have a lot of admiration for Melinda Gates. With all of her money, she could spend it on the latest fashions, luxury yachts, etc. Instead, she chooses to help the poor in Africa. I’m sure that none of us are qualified to declare that we know the state of her soul. She seems more saintly to me than a lot of people.

I would like to point out that encyclicals such as Humane Vitae are addressed to married couples.

It is my understanding that a lot of twelve-year-old girls in Africa get pregnant because of rape. Their bodies are not ready to support a pregnancy, and some of them end up with their internal organs damaged to the point that they leak blood all of the time. Even though these girls are raped through no fault of their own, they can get shunned by their families if they get pregnant. They can get pregnant again and again.

I read somewhere years ago that a group of nuns were on the pill because of a grave danger of being raped. If that was morally okay, why wouldn’t it be okay to give pills or shots to these girls? Unmarried women have no obligation at all to rapists, and the medical risks from pills or shots might be less than the dangers from the atrocious lives these girls will lead if they keep getting pregnant.

I also think it would be very good if these women had lessons on how to use Natural Family Planning. However, it won’t do them any good at all if the men won’t leave them alone.

I also agree with Ryecroft about medical use of the pill. If men had to endure these terrible cramps for five minutes, these problems would have been solved years ago.
 
edwest2 said:
Some alternatives to the Pill for medical conditions.

creightonmodel.com/

catholicpediatrics.com/articles/alternatives-adolescent-birth-control-pills

naprotechnology.com/

Peace,
Ed
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I have seen these links to Napro Technology before, and I have some questions about them. Since the subject of this thread is women in Africa who are getting birth control from Melinda Gates, I would like to know whether or not this Napro Technology is available in Africa.

The other question I have is this: These Napro Technology web sites state that they find the “underlying cause” when women have problems with painful periods. It would be interesting to find some anecdotal evidence from women who have actually been treated by Napro Technology. What are some examples of the “underlying causes” they found, and how did they get it fixed?
 
ryecroft said:
I’m guessing you missed where I said:

“I get it that this is not why Mrs. Gates was pleging the money to help” (referring to the medical benefits that can be provided by the pill. In my case I’m greatful for the pill because it has actually given me the chance to get pregnant again. If I hadn’t had the pill, they would have had to have done a hysterectomy years ago. Even with tens of thousands of dollars of tests and surgeries, they still couldn’t figure out why ever since I began having a period I would bleed so hard or so long - to thepoint of needing to get transfusions - so we’re not just talking some ‘extra cramps’ (which I roll my eyes about when I see a male comment on - saying - oh she’s just taking it because she’s got a little heavy bleeding or has an extra cramp or two…I honestly believe that if most men could experience two hours of any woman having a bad period, they’d be crying and begging God to make them not have to endure the pain - won’t even go into when I hear or read about their comments regarding natural child birth!)
My one big point was this, there are women out there for whom the Church o.k.s the use of birth control - and there are those of us who need it for other reasons than to keep from getting pregnant. Honestly, I wish I had never needed to take it, but it has been the best way to keep me with all the parts necessary to be able to have a child. Please pray that in the next year or so, I’ll get the o.k. to try to carry again and be successful. Just please, even though I agree the majority of women use it as a form of birth control, please remember there are quite a few of us out here who respect ourselves, our bodies and yet do still use the pill. Yes there are risks - I know of no medications that don’t come with at lest a page or two of risks and possible side effects. Please don’t assume that because a woman (married or not) takes the pill or another form of ABC that she automatically sins - so to me the question of do women need access to contraceptives is a big YES!
God Bless
Rye
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If you use contraception for non contraceptive reasons such as for periods you are not using it for its contraceptive effect. But that is not the reason Melinda Gates is promoting contraception, she is using it for other reasons to do with other reasons and that is immoral

God Bless
 
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