Do women not have souls?

Corpus_Cristi · Oct 29, 2004

I was talking to someone, who grew up Methodist, and is now a Bhuddist. He was talking to me about the Catholic Church teahing at some point that women didn’t have souls. I thought about this for a minute, and then asked him, “Are you sure that the Catholic Church actually taught this, or if this was something that a clergyman or a group of clergy went along with, and that the Catolic Church actually condemn?” He said that he didn’t know. Just to give you a little background info, he was told by his Catholic friends in highschool, that the reason we confessed our sins to a priest, is because he supposedly has a more direct line to the ear of God. He went to a Catechism Class with them and learned that the Church used to teach that women didn’t have souls. I didn’t believe him for a minute. I thought he took something the wrong way, so I put in the Ask an Apologist forum, but I don’t think I’ve gotten anything back on that. I didn’t even get a message back saying that they decided not to answer my question. Can someone please tell me the truth about this?

clmowry · Oct 29, 2004

Corpus Cristi:

I was talking to someone, who grew up Methodist, and is now a Bhuddist. He was talking to me about the Catholic Church teahing at some point that women didn’t have souls. I thought about this for a minute, and then asked him, “Are you sure that the Catholic Church actually taught this, or if this was something that a clergyman or a group of clergy went along with, and that the Catolic Church actually condemn?” He said that he didn’t know. Just to give you a little background info, he was told by his Catholic friends in highschool, that the reason we confessed our sins to a priest, is because he supposedly has a more direct line to the ear of God. He went to a Catechism Class with them and learned that the Church used to teach that women didn’t have souls. I didn’t believe him for a minute. I thought he took something the wrong way, so I put in the Ask an Apologist forum, but I don’t think I’ve gotten anything back on that. I didn’t even get a message back saying that they decided not to answer my question. Can someone please tell me the truth about this?

No way the Catholic Church ever taught that women do not have souls.

If anyone ever postulated such a thing, I’m sure it was quickly debunked.

Chuck

Exporter · Oct 29, 2004

Do Catholic women have souls? Do any women have souls?

Either you are just joking or your friend is increditably gullible.

All human women do have souls. The Catholic Church has alway, since Christ, have taught that women have souls.

tuopaolo · Oct 29, 2004

I believe St Thomas Aquinas argued that women had souls. So there must have been some people at some point in time who were arguing that they didn’t.

mlchance · Oct 29, 2004

Catholic teaching is that all living things have souls. Whether those souls are immortal is another question.

It is ironic that a Buddhist levels this accusation. According to Buddhism, we do not only not have souls, we do not even have existence. We are illusions begetted by the first falsehood: the ego, or awareness of the self.

– Mark L. Chance.

Grayton · Oct 29, 2004

This idea that the Church once taught that women do not have souls is an anti-Catholic urban legend. You can read about it and find other links to this subject at:

home.nyc.rr.com/mysticalrose/object.html

The writer at that site makes an obvious refutation:

“And what about the greatest Saint of all: the holy Mother of God and ever-Virgin Mary? The one who sings in Scripture “My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior” (Luke 1:46-47)! If the Church once believed that women were soulless, then she would have to have taught that Mary was also soulless. But she has never taught that, for Scripture clearly teaches that Mary has a soul (Luke 1:46; 2:35)!”

Sherlock · Oct 29, 2004

First off, it is important to distinguish betwen Church teaching and the speculations of theologians (no matter how esteemed). The Church has never taught that women do not have souls.

What this comes from is some speculation regarding when “ensoulment” took place. St. Thomas Aquinas, basing his embryology on Aristotelian embryology (which was obviously not as advanced as it is today) mistakenly speculated that “ensoulment” took place at the time of what was termed the “quickening” (can’t remember how many days after conception this supposedly took place). For some reason (I’m sorry, but I cannot remember the reason), females reached “ensoulment” sometime after males (perhaps going back to woman made from man, that is, from Adam’s rib?).

Theological speculation is one thing, Church teaching is another. I am amazed that this is trotted out by someone as Catholic teaching—sounds like typical, anti-Catholic garbage to me.

tru_dvotion · Oct 29, 2004

Well Corpus, I did not bother to read the responses. I just have one comment to make to you. The fact you would even ask about this reveals a great deal about you.

RobedWithLight · Oct 29, 2004

Please ask your buddhist friend his sources of information so that we can rationally examine it. As it now stands, it is pure speculation without any basis.

Gerry

Gottle_of_Geer · Oct 29, 2004

Grayton:

This idea that the Church once taught that women do not have souls is an anti-Catholic urban legend. You can read about it and find other links to this subject at:

home.nyc.rr.com/mysticalrose/object.html

The writer at that site makes an obvious refutation:

“And what about the greatest Saint of all: the holy Mother of God and ever-Virgin Mary? The one who sings in Scripture “My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior” (Luke 1:46-47)! If the Church once believed that women were soulless, then she would have to have taught that Mary was also soulless. But she has never taught that, for Scripture clearly teaches that Mary has a soul (Luke 1:46; 2:35)!”

It’s based on a misunderstood passage of Gregory of Tours, and goes back to the early 1700s, IIRC. It’s an example of a legend growing by a process like that in a game of “Chinese Whispers”.

Gottle_of_Geer · Oct 29, 2004

RobedWithLight:

Please ask your buddhist friend his sources of information so that we can rationally examine it. As it now stands, it is pure speculation without any basis.

Gerry

It’s based on a misunderstood passage of Gregory of Tours relating to the Council of Maçon in 585, and goes back to the early 1700s, IIRC. It’s an example of a legend growing by a process like that in a game of “Chinese Whispers”.

It’s like the story of the Golden Tooth from 1593. A child was said to have grown one, and there was widespread interest in the rumour, and many learned books discussing its meaning and significance. Presently, someone had the bright idea of asking whether the child in question had grown such a tooth. He hadn’t; the supposed gold tooth had simply been covered over with foil. Hugely amusing - for those who had not written books about the meaning of the tooth, asking what message God intended by such a wonder.

More curious fun here: zygote.swarthmore.edu/fert1b.html

Try this for the soulless ladies story: firstthings.com/ftissues/ft9704/nolan.html ##

Jim_ov_Cov · Oct 30, 2004

I think we all agree that women have souls. The real question is, do they have *brains? :tiphat: *

(Don’t try and answer this ladies, just get the dinner on!)

JackPaul · Oct 30, 2004

Now, there is a guy looking for serious trouble! It’s a good thing Catholic women are so forgiving. I hope that you are not anywhere near a frying pan clad women when she reads that post. She just might crown you before she fries them pork chops.
Peace

DominvsVobiscvm · Oct 30, 2004

I believe St Thomas Aquinas argued that women had souls. So there must have been some people at some point in time who were arguing that they didn’t.

I know of no such belief existing among Christians, much less Catholics.

In his Summa, Saint Thomas answers a whole host of objections, not all of which were necesarily representative of ideas prevailing in his time.

For example, he argued that there really was a God, and that atheism wasn’t true. This does not mean there were Catholic theologians who were teaching that God did not exist.

tru_dvotion · Oct 30, 2004

Jim ov Cov said:
Jim ov Cov said:

I think we all agree that women have souls. The real question is, do they have *brains? *

Click to expand...

And WHAT do we have here?

MariaG · Oct 30, 2004

Now, there is a guy looking for serious trouble! It’s a good thing Catholic women are so forgiving. I hope that you are not anywhere near a frying pan clad women when she reads that post. She just might crown you before she fries them pork chops.

And this Catholic woman uses cast iron. Ouch!

But he does bring up a good point, if us women had brains, why on earth would we love idiots like him.

CD4 · Oct 30, 2004

tuopaolo:

I believe St Thomas Aquinas argued that women had souls. So there must have been some people at some point in time who were arguing that they didn’t.

This is true…I remember reading about this, but can’t for the life of me remember where…There was some question about women having or not having souls…

Grayton · Oct 31, 2004

tuopaolo:

I believe St Thomas Aquinas argued that women had souls. So there must have been some people at some point in time who were arguing that they didn’t.

As I noted in my earlier post, this is entirely an urban legend. It is untrue>

The website I referred to earlier states in part:

“Aquinas thought that God infuses a soul into a baby girl on the eightieth day after conception. Now, that “eightieth day” part was his personal opinion, not official Catholic dogma. Now that we know more about conception, the Church today believes that God infuses a soul into every child, male or female, at the moment of conception. Though he was wrong about the timing, Aquinas still believed - along with all his medieval contemporaries - that women have souls.”

home.nyc.rr.com/mysticalrose/object.html

mark_a · Oct 31, 2004

MariaG:

And this Catholic woman uses cast iron. Ouch!

But he does bring up a good point, if us women had brains, why on earth would we love idiots like him.

God made women beautiful so men would love them. He made women stupid so they could love men.

Fitz · Oct 31, 2004

Jim ov Cov:

I think we all agree that women have souls. The real question is, do they have *brains? :tiphat: *

(Don’t try and answer this ladies, just get the dinner on!)

O.K, since you are from the UK I will let you slide and just laugh at this. It is funny…

Do women not have souls?

Corpus_Cristi

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clmowry

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Exporter

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tuopaolo

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mlchance

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Grayton

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Sherlock

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tru_dvotion

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RobedWithLight

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Gottle_of_Geer

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It’s based on a misunderstood passage of Gregory of Tours, and goes back to the early 1700s, IIRC. It’s an example of a legend growing by a process like that in a game of “Chinese Whispers”.​

Gottle_of_Geer

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It’s based on a misunderstood passage of Gregory of Tours relating to the Council of Maçon in 585, and goes back to the early 1700s, IIRC. It’s an example of a legend growing by a process like that in a game of “Chinese Whispers”.​

Jim_ov_Cov

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JackPaul

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DominvsVobiscvm

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tru_dvotion

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MariaG

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CD4

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Grayton

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mark_a

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Fitz

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It’s based on a misunderstood passage of Gregory of Tours, and goes back to the early 1700s, IIRC. It’s an example of a legend growing by a process like that in a game of “Chinese Whispers”.

It’s based on a misunderstood passage of Gregory of Tours relating to the Council of Maçon in 585, and goes back to the early 1700s, IIRC. It’s an example of a legend growing by a process like that in a game of “Chinese Whispers”.