Do you agree that the Judeo-Christian God is not the same as the Muslim God?

[CatholicHockey7]

Sorry, but you misquoted the Catechism. The plan of salvation does not include those who “ignore” the Creator, but rather those who acknowledge the Creator.

“The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” (CCC par 841).

Just thought we should clear that up.

Peace

Steve

YES, THANK YOU! That’s what I get for posting using a cell phone at 3am.

 

[SteveVH]

YES, THANK YOU! That’s what I get for posting using a cell phone at 3am.

LOL! Understand completely.

 

[Tom_Baum]

Believing in the one, true God can be accomplished without having a good understanding the nature of that one, true God. As has been said repeatedly on this very thread, you cannot believe the Muslims worship a false god without applying this equally to the Jews. Both worship the God of Abraham even if they do not understand his triune nature.

You wrote, “As has been said repeatedly on this very thread, you cannot believe the Muslims worship a false god without applying this equally to the Jews. Both worship the God of Abraham even if they do not understand his triune nature.”

Christians and Jews, for the most part, believe that God chose Abraham and that Abraham’s line went thru Isaac and Jacob, as a matter of fact, Jacob’s name was changed to Israel, wasn’t it.

The Muslims seem to believe that the “line” went thru Ismael, don’t they?

To put it mildly, this is quite a difference, don’t you think?

Did God choose Abraham with the “line” going thru Isaac and Jacob or is this all a lie as it seems to say in the Koran, or at least what I seem to have heard that it says and that the line really does go thru Ismael?

There are some very basic things written in the bible that are “denied” in the Koran, does this mean that God is duplicitous or that the God of the bible and the god of islam are not the same?

 

[MartinJordan]

You wrote, “As has been said repeatedly on this very thread, you cannot believe the Muslims worship a false god without applying this equally to the Jews. Both worship the God of Abraham even if they do not understand his triune nature.”

Christians and Jews, for the most part, believe that God chose Abraham and that Abraham’s line went thru Isaac and Jacob, as a matter of fact, Jacob’s name was changed to Israel, wasn’t it.

The Muslims seem to believe that the “line” went thru Ismael, don’t they?

To put it mildly, this is quite a difference, don’t you think?

Did God choose Abraham with the “line” going thru Isaac and Jacob or is this all a lie as it seems to say in the Koran, or at least what I seem to have heard that it says and that the line really does go thru Ismael?

There are some very basic things written in the bible that are “denied” in the Koran, does this mean that God is duplicitous or that the God of the bible and the god of islam are not the same?

The question is was Ismael a blood son of Abraham? And are we talking about the same Abraham who was saddened about sending off Hagar and Ismael? If yes then it the same God who allowed these things to happen. Yes the technicalities are dubious about what Islam professes but it doesn’t take away Muslims worshipping the same God. Besides knowing the real facts doesn’t make us automatically righteous without faults

MJ

 

[Rhubarb]

I agree that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all claim that they worship the “God of Abraham.” There’s more to that list too, I just am feeling lazy >.>

 

[adamhovey1988]

Do you agree that they are two different beings?

I wish to argue that the Judeo-Christian God is not the same being as the Muslim/Islamic God. They are two entirely different entities.

Why? They may seem to have the same function, but fundamentally, we know that the Judeo-Christian God is identified as Yahweh. The Muslim God is identified as Allah. Nowhere in the Quran is the name of God ever explicitly stated as Yahweh. It is always explicitly expressed as Allah. Allah is used as a proper name for the name of Muslim God but the proper name of the Judeo-Christian God is always Yahweh; in fact Yahweh is mentioned properly more that 6000 times in the bible in the original tetragrammaton in Hebrew.

Therefore it is wrong to say that Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God. We do not.

If anyone can point out where the Muslim God refers to himself explicitly as Yahweh in the Quran, then I’m open to reconsider my position on the matter.

I am going to guess you have never met an Arab Christian, the word “Allah” literally means “The God” and is used by both Arabic speaking Jews and Christians, as well as Muslims. In fact, people were complaining about Pope Emeritus Benedict calling God “Allah”, umm, he was speaking with Native Arabic Speakers. Allah is a cognate with the Hebrew “El”, and the truth is, God’s “name” is actually unknown, we have no idea how it would be pronounced, since that information was actually lost during the destruction of the temple. I am sorry if I am about sound condescending, but I don’t think you have a degree in comparative linguistics (and that’s okay, neither do I), but I do think you should realise that Arabic and Hebrew are related languages, and many of the words come from the same “ancestral” language, as it were.

 

[adamhovey1988]

If I may also add, Christians called God “Allah” before Islam even EXISTED, you can find Christian poetry from before Mohammed’s birth that does just that

 

[SteveVH]

You wrote, “As has been said repeatedly on this very thread, you cannot believe the Muslims worship a false god without applying this equally to the Jews. Both worship the God of Abraham even if they do not understand his triune nature.”

Christians and Jews, for the most part, believe that God chose Abraham and that Abraham’s line went thru Isaac and Jacob, as a matter of fact, Jacob’s name was changed to Israel, wasn’t it.

The Muslims seem to believe that the “line” went thru Ismael, don’t they?

To put it mildly, this is quite a difference, don’t you think?

What does the Muslim belief that the line went through Ishmael have to do with worshipping a false god? Yes, we believe they are wrong on that account, as well as most everything else in the Quran which displays an incorrect understanding of Scripture. It does not mean they worship a false god.

There are some very basic things written in the bible that are “denied” in the Koran, does this mean that God is duplicitous or that the God of the bible and the god of islam are not the same?

Well, there are some very basic things in the Bible which are denied by many Christians as well; Unless one eats the flesh of the Son of Man and drinks his blood he will have no life in him. Yet there are many who believe the Catholic Church is wrong in believing in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Does this mean that these Christians worship a false god because they misinterpret or do not understand Scripture?

 

[Tom_Baum]

The question is was Ismael a blood son of Abraham?

That is NOT the question, the question is: "Do you agree that the Judeo-Christian God is not the same as the Muslim God?

And are we talking about the same Abraham who was saddened about sending off Hagar and Ismael?

Yes.

If yes then it the same God who allowed these things to happen.

Yes, it is the same God Who allowed these things to happen and these things that you refer to are recorded in the bible, aren’t they?

Question: Are these things recorded the same way in the Koran?

Yes the technicalities are dubious about what Islam professes but it doesn’t take away Muslims worshipping the same God.

These “technicalities”, as you put it, are a little more than technicalities I would say.

Do you consider Jesus being God-Incarnate and Jesus NOT being God-Incarnate a mere “technicality”?

Especially since Jesus being God-Incarnate is what Christianity is all about!

Are you saying that God choosing Abraham and Isaac and Jacob as being the beginning of Judaism and God choosing Abraham thru Ismael as a mere “technicality”?

Besides knowing the real facts doesn’t make us automatically righteous without faults

MJ

It doesn’t matter who “knows” the “real facts”, the real facts are real no matter who knows them and the false facts are false facts no matter who believes them, correct?

As I have said many times before, “God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof”,

I, personally, do NOT believe that the God of the bible and the god of islam are the same and I have mentioned some of the reasons why I believe this.

 

[Tom_Baum]

What does the Muslim belief that the line went through Ishmael have to do with worshipping a false god? Yes, we believe they are wrong on that account, as well as most everything else in the Quran which displays an incorrect understanding of Scripture. It does not mean they worship a false god.

Well, there are some very basic things in the Bible which are denied by many Christians as well; Unless one eats the flesh of the Son of Man and drinks his blood he will have no life in him. Yet there are many who believe the Catholic Church is wrong in believing in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Does this mean that these Christians worship a false god because they misinterpret or do not understand Scripture?

There are also people who consider themselves Christian who do not believe that Jesus Is God-Incarnate, however, I believe that if Jesus is not God-Incarnate than Christianity ceases to exist since the whole basis of Christianity is that God became One of Us.

Does Jesus being God-Incarnate have any bearing on Christianity, in your opinion?

Ever notice that the god of islam speaks highly of Jesus, yet denies Jesus’s Divinity?

Even if nothing else, I consider this a ponderable.