Do you agree with everything in the Magisterium?

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alphonsus1

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Do you agree with every issue of Faith and Morals in the infallible Magisterium? In the non-infallible Magisterium? (With every letter, every comma, everything).
 
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alphonsus1 said:
Or do you pick and choose cafeteria style: I don’t like the grilled cheese, but I like the tomato soup?
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This might be an unfair assessment in relationship to your question.

Your question asks, “Do you agree with every issue of Faith and Morals in the infallible Magisterium”.

Disagreement does not make a “cafeteria Catholic”; disobedience does.

No, I do not necessarily “agree” with every infallible pronouncement from the Magisterium, but I obey them.
 
Catechism 2089:

“Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;”

You cannot morally disagree with the infallible Magisterium. There can be no error. Simply, impossible errors cannot occur, so I am trying to wrap my mind around why anyone would (A) be Catholic (B) throw out the the logical reason to even be Catholic in the first place. Why not be Eastern Orthodox? (The only answer is the authority of the Pope to teach on Faith and Morals).
 
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alphonsus1 said:
“Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;”
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Again, denial and disobedience is two totally different things, as are denial and disagreement, because soon it implies that any sin is a heretical act.

I didn’t agree with the rules established at home by my parents when I lived there, I didn’t agree with the rules established by the military when I served…but I did not deny them, and I certainly did not disobey them.

One must be careful when throwing around the term “heresy”, because if used too freely, it implies any sin is heresy, and all sinners are heretics.
 
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Disagreement is obstinent doubt, period.

Involuntary doubt is not within your control, voluntary doubt is.

You can sin, but still agree with the Magisterium. All good people make mistakes.
 
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A long time ago on these forums we had a "Hook, Line, and Sinker’ club (remember, fellow old-CAFers?) which basically stated that we were members of the Catholic Church and we believed every teaching, hook, line, and sinker.

I was a member then and I haven’t changed my mind. I agree and accept as truth every issue of Faith and Morals in the infallible Magisterium.
 
According to St. Alphonsus, the more people that are in hell, the greater the misery, because you will only be able to see the suffering of your unhappy companions. So that is not a good argument: “St. Thomas will be in Hell with me. There will be a lot of people in Hell with me.”

Also, St. Thomas is not in Hell. However, he did think that the vast majority of people went to Hell. St. Augustine thought it was certain the vast majority went to Hell. St. Alphonsus thought the majority went to Hell because they failed to adopt the means necessary for salvation, one of those means being fleeing from sin (including heresy).
 
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stpurl said:
I agree and accept as truth every issue of Faith and Morals in the infallible Magisterium.
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Why is it so difficult to see the difference between agreement and obedience…obedience is the action, disagreement may be doubt, but doubt unacted on. Doubt is not a sin unless it is acted upon through rejection of the pronouncements of the Magisterium.
 
No, interior acts (thoughts) exist as well. Doubt can be any thought in your brain that you knowingly and deliberately consent to, it doesn’t just have to be exterior acts of rejection. Just because one does not consciously lead others to contradict the infallible Magisterium (teaching heretical opinions), does not mean they cannot commit heresy objectively (God judges culpability), through willful thoughts.

And any doubt of the infallible Magisterium outside of your will, while not a sin, is at the very least near occasion to the sin of heresy, if you omit the act of throwing off that doubt instantly. Temptation to sin must be thrown off immediately. Flee! Flee! Flee!
 
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alphonsus1 said:
Temptation to sin must be thrown off immediately. Flee! Flee! Flee!
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I know it’s fun to play tell people to “flee!” and be the self-appointed defender of orthodoxy, but I have to ask: what’s the point of this thread? You clearly aren’t asking a question in good faith; you’re just looking for a place to scold people you think are insufficiently Catholic.

Bad form, dude.
 
No, I couldn’t disagree more. It is not “Orthodox” to agree with the infallible Magisterium, that is something every Catholic needs to do on pain of sin. It is not defending Orthodoxy to say agreement with the infallible Magisterium is a bare minimum. It is Orthodox to also agree with the non-infallible Magisterium, and I never claimed that disagreement with anything in the non-infallible Magisterium was heresy.

I am asking people if they disagree with the infallible Magisterium, to get a sense of the Catholic Answers forums. I was told yesterday that most people on this forum do not agree with the infallible Magisterium, so I decided to test it out.

Also, it amazes me that some people think that you cannot warn people about the dangers of perdition! There is a large difference between “judging” and “warning.” St. Alphonsus made so many of his sermons about fleeing from sin, and I copy his statements, why is that bad? Should you not get out a clipboard and take notes on how St. Alphonsus, St. Thomas, St. Mother Theresa, St. Faustina, Doctors of the Church and Saints who I aspire to be like, acted?

Finally, St. Thomas thought heretics that publicly taught falsehoods contrary to the Truths of the Catholic Faith should be executed. And I’m not even allowed to call out errors in posts when I see them? But you are allowed to call out errors that you think exist in my posts? (But everyone makes mistakes, I agree!)
 
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So glad today is Divine Mercy Sunday, because I know God will grant me the mercy I might not be deserving of, even if some of my fellow men do not view me as deserving.

It might just be a matter that when one is not at peace with God, they want to project their woefulness on to others.

I’m out of this conversation. Pray for me; I will pray for you.
 
That was a joke, it was apparently lost. No one gets my humor. I was joking about just picking and choosing things, like one would at the lunch line, because I thought that was a good analogy. There was no ill intent. I can remove that line of comment if you think it’ll have bad circumstances overall to keep it? Should I remove it?
 
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I’m so happy too! Pray at 3 pm, to get the Divine Mercy plenary indulgence.

I will be praying for you! 🙏 Lots of love ❤️
 
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I removed the line from my comment about Cafeteria Catholicism, since it was misinterpreted and was taken in a way that I did not intend. Is my comment good as it stands?
 
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