Do you believe in Adam and Eve or Evolution?

[buffalo]

What I personally don’t get about the Adam and Eve story is:
if Adam and Eve are the parents of ALL human mankind, did their children marry each other and their grandchildren, great-grand children etc?
What race were they and how did all the different races that exist today develop?

That makes it difficult for me to believe in Adam and Eve. On the other hand you need to believe in Adam and Eve in order to believe in the original sin.

This is one thing I just can’t wrap my head around

Also, when it comes to Creationism: I thought that Catholic Church is against Creationism and actually supports evolution.

In the beginning sister married brother, but not parents to children. The Book of Jubilees says Cain’s sister Avan was his wife.

 

[buffalo]

Definitely in evolution.

Jack

Check out post #141. I would like your thoughts after reading it.

 

[Lui]

I suggest you read the following:

timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article1645453.ece

Link doesn’t work: 404 Error

The page could not be loaded

In the beginning sister married brother, but not parents to children. The Book of Jubilees says Cain’s sister Avan was his wife.

Sorry, but I find this too hard to believe. How did all the races there are develop from this and what race were Adam and Eve? My confession priest also believes man evolved by evolution. Does that mean he doesn’t understand his faith?

 

[edwest2]

Loaded fine for me. Which browser do you use?

Ed

 

[Jack_Bauer]

Also, when it comes to Creationism: I thought that Catholic Church is against Creationism and actually supports evolution.

This is not true. The Church does not chastise, nor require someone for believing the creation story. However, it also allows those who believe in science to hold their views, provided they hold to a belief in our first parents, Adam and Eve.

It’s very wrong to push others into believing your own view, particularly when the Church allows it. Some years back, evolution theories were suppressed by creationists. Now the evolutionist are trying to suppress the creationist. I find nothing charitable about either.

I’d also like to point out that Abraham and Sarah were half brother and sister.

 

[HelenRose]

This is not true. The Church does not chastise, nor require someone for believing the creation story. However, it also allows those who believe in science to hold their views, provided they hold to a belief in our first parents, Adam and Eve.

It’s very wrong to push others into believing your own view, particularly when the Church allows it. Some years back, evolution theories were suppressed by creationists. Now the evolutionist are trying to suppress the creationist. I find nothing charitable about either.

I’d also like to point out that Abraham and Sarah were half brother and sister.

This is such a sensible answer. I don’t understand why there is an argument in the first place. Neither accepting nor rejecting the “THEORY” of Evolution has anything whatsoever to do with whether or not we accept or reject God.

I sometimes think that people just want to argue and this is a good starting place.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

Adam and Eve: Real People

It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).

In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” (Humani Generis 37).

The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).

 

[Blacksword]

What I personally don’t get about the Adam and Eve story is:
if Adam and Eve are the parents of ALL human mankind, did their children marry each other and their grandchildren, great-grand children etc?
What race were they and how did all the different races that exist today develop?

That makes it difficult for me to believe in Adam and Eve. On the other hand you need to believe in Adam and Eve in order to believe in the original sin.

This is one thing I just can’t wrap my head around

Also, when it comes to Creationism: I thought that Catholic Church is against Creationism and actually supports evolution.

The Catholic Church does indeed accept the science of evolution as a matter of biological origins. For an analysis of original sin and evolution, again, I would suggest you give BioLogos.org a read. There is no small amount of space there dedicated to discussion of this. Again, not everything there is currently accepted by the Church, but much of it is, and will give you some food for thought.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

The Catholic Church does indeed accept the science of evolution as a matter of biological origins. For an analysis of original sin and evolution, again, I would suggest you give BioLogos.org a read. There is no small amount of space there dedicated to discussion of this. Again, not everything there is currently accepted by the Church, but much of it is, and will give you some food for thought.

Thanks, but no thanks. After years of walking in the dark in my fundamentalist faith, I prefer to stick to authorized Catholic websites for anything dealing with my faith.

 

[Blacksword]

This is such a sensible answer. I don’t understand why there is an argument in the first place. Neither accepting nor rejecting the “THEORY” of Evolution has anything whatsoever to do with whether or not we accept or reject God.

I sometimes think that people just want to argue and this is a good starting place.

Probably you are more right about that than you know. If someone wants to believe in young earth creationism, fine, I’ll not try to dissuade them. But all too often what I find is that my not accepting young earth creationism is used as a ground to impune my faith and brand me as some kind of heretic on my way to the lake of fire. And when the “ID” folks want to bring this into the science classroom in school, that’s also something I take issue with.

 

[Blacksword]

Thanks, but no thanks. After years of walking in the dark in my fundamentalist faith, I prefer to stick to authorized Catholic websites for anything dealing with my faith.

I can understand that, I spent my own time lost, and struggled with the Protestant fundamentalist view. I emerged from my own dark night of the soul better for it, having found the truth of the Catholic Church in the process. God bless you.

 

[buffalo]

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Sorry, but I find this too hard to believe. How did all the races there are develop from this and what race were Adam and Eve? My confession priest also believes man evolved by evolution. Does that mean he doesn’t understand his faith?

Adam and Eve were the prototypical humans and all races descended from them.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Both.

Succinct and to the point. And basically my position.

And like others have stated here, I think the poll is flawed. No choice for “both” or “other.”

I put down “Adam and Eve,” but REALLY wish I could have put down “Both.”

 

[Jack_Bauer]

I can understand that, I spent my own time lost, and struggled with the Protestant fundamentalist view. I emerged from my own dark night of the soul better for it, having found the truth of the Catholic Church in the process. God bless you.

God Bless You as well. Thanks for sharing. Sometime I feel I’m a loner with my background. So many cradle Catholics don’t get how lucky they really are, if they only just place their trust in the right place and stop trying to make everyone think like themselves. I love science. I know the theories presented in scholarly circles. However, I do not subscribe to all that so called scholars try to shove down our throats having worked in those circles. I still love to learn the science and some I accept with out problems. Others are difficult for me to accept knowing what I know about the sciences and my own engineering analytical ways. There are too many academic types trying to make a name for themselves - even at the cost of truth. It’s my opinion, nothing more, nothing less. The Church supports me in my creation view of everything. Somehow I’m expecting some of these posters to show up in the middle of the night carrying torches ready to drag me out and burn me at the stake.

 

[supertubos]

See this:

Body came through evolution.
Evolution was planned by God as an engineer plans an airplane. Besides planning, evolution was directed by Go. Evolution is so complicated that could not come by “chance”
Each individual soul is created by Gos.

 

[supertubos]

If evolution is real, and Genesis 1-11 are just mythical truth, then how can I trust anything in the Bible.

If evolution is true, then DEATH came before SIN.

**
Romans 5

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

**

So if the curse did not happen, then what hope do I have from freedom of the curse. Gen discusses the tree of life, then how can we trust Rev’s mention of the tree of life

**
Rev 22

1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life**, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

At the end, rc has very little regard for the authority of the Word of God, they put their faith in the things of men, and take authority away so they can change with the prevailing thought of the day so they can continue to hold their seat.

Macro Evolution is a myth. No way did a man come from monkey like parents, and there is no science that has proved that. God created an aged earth.

Look. Take it easy. The Bible was not written to be an historical Book. It is a FAITH document. The Adam and Eve story is not a myth but a “midrash” (please learn the term). It is a story that gives us a message. This belongs to the Jewish Tradition.

The parables of the Jesus were not myths yet gave us extraordinary teachings. Do you remember that the apostles say that Jesus taught everything in parables?

Now, with Galileo, there was a crisis, because people interpreted literally that the sun goes round the moon. The Church suffered a crisis and learnt from Science.with Darwin, the same thing. We know that Adam and Eve could not exist.

But the midrash of Adam and Eve teaches us :1)That God created Heaven and Earth; 2) That God created man; 3) That sin is present on everyday life.

Now the original sin puts us a problem and we cannot flee from problems. The Cardinal of Lisbon told that the other day. If Adam and Eve did not exist, what is the original sin? When I studied Theology, the general interpretation is that the Bible writers had the conscience that there are individual sins but there is a collective tendency to sin. Sometimes a child is born with problems because the mother drank during pregnancy. So they put the collective guilt in someone far in the past: Adam and Eve.

But all civilizations have the same archetypical (Car Jung) midrash: the 4 ages in the Romans, the Pandora in the greeks, the Lost Paradise, and so on. I was in East Timor and they had the idea that long time ago Heaven and Earth were connected but a liana and one day the woman went up to heaven and stayed longer than expected. The man, fed up, cut the liana and since them, Heaven and Earth began to separate.

The idea is the same. There was a time when time were good, we could go to heave, but, by man’s sin or stupidity we could reach heaven no more.

So, it is more because some text is not “historical” that we can throw it away for it gives us a divine message. Cheers,

 

[Lui]

The Catholic Church does indeed accept the science of evolution as a matter of biological origins. For an analysis of original sin and evolution, again, I would suggest you give BioLogos.org a read. There is no small amount of space there dedicated to discussion of this. Again, not everything there is currently accepted by the Church, but much of it is, and will give you some food for thought.

Thanks for the link I find that site quite interesting.
Btw, someone mentioned that certain people just come here to argue. That isn’t the case with me. I specifically told the confession priest at my last confession(last week) that I have trouble understanding the whole Adam and Eve story and that I believe in evolution. After that I discovered this thread. I believe evolution is the way God creates life just like a sculptor carves or molds clay, marble or stone to create a sculpture.

Adam and Eve were the prototypical humans and all races descended from them.

There are certain things I don’t get with this scenario: Adam and Eve gave birth to Cain and the Abel. Cain killed Abel, went away and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
After that “Cain had intercourse with his wife, and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch”(Genisis 4:17)

Who was his wife It doesn’t say that she was his sister nor is it mentioned that Adam and Eve had a daughter up to this point. Later in Genesis 4:25 it says “Adam hat intercourse with his wife, and she gave birth to a son she named Seth, ‘because God granted me OTHER offspring’, she said ‘in place of Abel because Cain has killed him’” So AFTER Cain had already killed Abel, Eve had another SON. Cain went away and took a wife. Where did she come from? Who was she?

 

[Lui]

Thanks, but no thanks. After years of walking in the dark in my fundamentalist faith, I prefer to stick to authorized Catholic websites for anything dealing with my faith.

Just out of curiosity. You write that your religion is: ‘Pratholox’ on the upper right hand corner. What does that mean?

 

[buffalo]

Thanks for the link I find that site quite interesting.
Btw, someone mentioned that certain people just come here to argue. That isn’t the case with me. I specifically told the confession priest at my last confession(last week) that I have trouble understanding the whole Adam and Eve story and that I believe in evolution. After that I discovered this thread. I believe evolution is the way God creates life just like a sculptor carves or molds clay, marble or stone to create a sculpture.

There are certain things I don’t get with this scenario: Adam and Eve gave birth to Cain and the Abel. Cain killed Abel, went away and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
After that “Cain had intercourse with his wife, and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch”(Genisis 4:17)

Who was his wife It doesn’t say that she was his sister nor is it mentioned that Adam and Eve had a daughter up to this point. Later in Genesis 4:25 it says “Adam hat intercourse with his wife, and she gave birth to a son she named Seth, ‘because God granted me OTHER offspring’, she said ‘in place of Abel because Cain has killed him’” So AFTER Cain had already killed Abel, Eve had another SON. Cain went away and took a wife. Where did she come from? Who was she?

A couple of questions:

1. Did God know what Adam would look like?
2. Did Adam look like God planned?

The Book of Jubilees says Avan, his twin sister.

SInce they lived to longer ages, there were plenty of women around for Cain to marry.

 

[Lui]

A couple of questions:

1. Did God know what Adam would look like?
2. Did Adam look like God planned?

The Book of Jubilees says Avan, his twin sister.

I don’t understand your questions and what they have to do with my question? Is the Book of Jubilees authorized by the Catholic Church?

SInce they lived to longer ages, there were plenty of women around for Cain to marry.

Incest? Really? isn’t that against the 10 Commandments? Sorry, I’m not trying to argue. I just want to be able to wrap my head around this. I find it hard to believe that Eve had a child every week and people live 1000 years and slept with their brothers and sisters.

What about the Cro Magnum and the Neanderthal. Who were the Neanderthal and when did they live, according to you?

I really need to speak to a priest about these issues. They’re really too mind-blowing for me.