Do you believe in Adam and Eve or Evolution?

[edwest2]

This is such a sensible answer. I don’t understand why there is an argument in the first place. Neither accepting nor rejecting the “THEORY” of Evolution has anything whatsoever to do with whether or not we accept or reject God.

I sometimes think that people just want to argue and this is a good starting place.

How did Original Sin occur? Why was Jesus born? Why did John the Baptist say: “Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.”?

To say we must believe in a theory which defines man as a biological mechanism ignores the work of God. And simply taking the Biology textbook and giving God some credit afterwards ignores those who use the same information to deny God.

Peace,
Ed

 

[buffalo]

I don’t understand your questions and what they have to do with my question? Is the Book of Jubilees authorized by the Catholic Church?

Incest? Really? isn’t that against the 10 Commandments? Sorry, I’m not trying to argue. I just want to be able to wrap my head around this. I find it hard to believe that Eve had a child every week and people live 1000 years and slept with their brothers and sisters.

What about the Cro Magnum and the Neanderthal. Who were the derthal and when did they live, according to you?

I really need to speak to a priest about these issues. They’re really too mind-blowing for me.

I too was taken aback at first.

Yes - incest in the collateral line does affect modern sensibilities. For Adam and Eve to be our first parents of whom all are descended marriage between brother and sister had to take place. It is not allowed between parent and child. I trust in God and His wisdom in this. As the gene pool became more corrupt over time it became an issue and not allowed. But remember Adam and Eve had preternatural gifts of freedom from sickness and bodily immortality. The inference is they had pristine genes and in the early generations incest did not pose a problem.

**2356 ***Rape *is the forcible violation of the sexual intimacy of another person. It does injury to justice and charity. Rape deeply wounds the respect, freedom, and physical and moral integrity to which every person has a right. It causes grave damage that can mark the victim for life. It is always an intrinsically evil act. Graver still is the rape of children committed by parents (incest) or those responsible for the education of the children entrusted to them.

Where does it say Eve had a child every week? Long ages is not a problem for me. And that gave plenty of time for there to be several woman around that would even be more distant relatives.

The Book of Jubilees is not canonical but is Apochrypha. It is worth reading.

Hopefully your priest will help you.

If you have been following the thread, Neandertals were an isolated group of humans. Their DNA is 99.5% identical to humans. Chimps are around 70%.

 

[jsaldar]

I believe that the story of creation in Genesis corresponds with evolution. I think that when the first humans with souls came along (who one would call Adam and Eve), they disobeyed God as Satan tempted them and they felt guilty about it. As Satan tempted them more and more, they kept feeling more and more guilt (or their eyes were opened and they noticed they were naked). They were developing consciences, intelects, and free will. Many say evolution is not compatible with Genesis, but, for most of them, they take everything literally (i.e. God created the world and life in exactly 7, 24 hour days.)

I agree. You can’t take everything in the bible literally especially in the Old Testament. In the same way you can’t deny what science can prove. Therefore, evolution is compatible with the Genesis. It’s only a different more symbolic way of telling the facts.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

article.wn.com/view/2011/05/11/Neanderthals_May_Have_Died_Out_Earlier_Than_Believed/

The significance of my post here is to show to those that do not realize the behind the scenes disagreements between evolution theories. The fossil records are and will be interpreted and reinterpreted over many hundreds of years to come. Genetics will no doubt help unravel the complexities of our history. But if science proves beyond a reasonable doubt that God is made up to help sustain the species, give man purpose, then what? That would mean that what suits my fancy is open and then the unraveling of mankind begins. Personally, I believe we’re already in that stage. And if God really does not exist then humans will be stepping aside for the next dominant species.

My point is that homosexuality, same sex “marriages”, ABC, abortion, genocide, etc. are all part of the destruction of mankind. And to make things even worst, most people are actually supporting there own demise.

Just as one can choose to love someone that hurts them repeatedly, i.e., difficult marriages, so too can we choose to believe in God. However, if we continue to pull God’s creation apart to its microscopic levels without giving Him the benefit of the doubt, in His ability to do things outside of space and time, then the results will be futile for us.

Have you ever thought of the possibility that God could have created everything as is, including the fossil record and none of it would have ever really roamed the earth? I know it sounds odd, but that is how I’ve dealt with this issue. I believe in our first parents, whom we know as Adam and Eve. There are so many things that are unexplainable. But I also see the possibility of a day being a million years in the thoughts of mankind. However, because God transcends time and space, a day could be a split second to God.

I love science, including the study of origins. However, I believe that until we solve the entire puzzle, which is doubtful, we should keep our thoughts on God and stop trying to persuade people away from God. Those who choose evolution over creation, but continue to choose to believe in God, congratulations for avoiding the stumbling block set before you. But don’t try to convince others they are absolutely wrong or stupid for choosing to believe in the creation model. If evolution challenges our faith and it causes us to fall into sin, non-belief in God, then we should avoid the discussion altogether, and those that try to cause us to stumble. What I really mean to convey, is for everyone to recognize the serious gaps in the evidence and that the overwhelming majority of what we call “fact” is really conjecture based on the evidence we have. It’s similar to an investigator analyzing a crime scene. Only in this case the investigator has much more “fresh” information to analyze. Evolution on the other hand is limited in not being able to locate enough real data to theorize more accurately “what really happened.”

The BIg Bang Theory was created by a Catholic priest, in case you don’t know. I have no objections to learning about evolution. I just have objections about people beating other people up for not accepting their point of view.

 

[edwest2]

Can you give an example of people beating other people up? Can you explain Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins using the same mountains of evidence to deny God?

If this is so important to spreading the faith then I suggest you contact the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:

cdf@cfaith.va

That may help clarify this constant, ongoing discussion.

Peace,
Ed

 

[alexpinca]

I respect all views…there is no way to be certain; however, analogy was a very frequent writing style in biblical times. There are a couple aspects of the Adam and Eve story that has convinced me that Adam and Eve was an analogy. First is the tree of knowledge, I believe that makes reference to man’s evolving self awareness. As this awareness evolved they became aware of their “nakedness”. The woman ate of the apple, some anthropologist have expressed belief that while the man was in the forests and the fields in search of food, the woman had the time and industry to develop rudimentary tools and as time went on, even more sophisticated tools, resulting in the analogy that woman ate of the apple. I believe our ancestors would be very disappointed in us if they knew that in the 21st century, we would be discussing the possibility of the literal reading of the story.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

Can you give an example of people beating other people up? Can you explain Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins using the same mountains of evidence to deny God?

If this is so important to spreading the faith then I suggest you contact the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:

cdf@cfaith.va

That may help clarify this constant, ongoing discussion.

Peace,
Ed

9,902 posts/210 weeks = 47.2 posts per week.

Wow, don’t you have time to do something better? Lot’s of posting over a 4 year period. What triggered you to want to post so often? I hope I don’t end up living on forum that long. I figure about 10 minutes to read, think and write each post on average about 1, 650 Hours on the internet. That’s almost a full-time job in a years time. And I just calculated about $12,377 with minimum wage. I wonder how much of that time is spent being uncharitable towards brothers and sisters in Christ. Ouch! Lord save me from myself. I hope I don’t spend that much time on this forum. Please, God, don’t let me do it. I have to rethink this now.

Anyway. Have you not learned that charity is the beginning of all wisdom? You’re obviously not reaching out to understand the conflicts. There is a sect within the Catholic Church that knows nothing or very little about charity. I’m surprised with each passing day. Our pastor tells us to avoid them, they rob the joy from you. They’ll bring you down with them. Their faith is weak at best.

So why the slamming? What the unorthodoxy Catholic methodology in pushing people in your anger. Why are you angry?

 

[Lui]

I agree. You can’t take everything in the bible literally especially in the Old Testament. In the same way you can’t deny what science can prove. Therefore, evolution is compatible with the Genesis. It’s only a different more symbolic way of telling the facts.

I have the same opinion. I think especially the Old Testament has a lot of symbolism and metaphors.
Take Noah’s ark for example. Do people really believe that Noah built an ark for all existing animals there are including animals from Australia like kangaroos and from South America like the alpaca? How gigantic was that ark supposed to be and how did he get hold of all those animals like the alpaca?

 

[TemplarJPN]

Personally I believe in the Big Bang…but i think God started all of it and watches over it all. Just my opinion

Pax Christi,

TemplarJPN :knight2:

 

[Jack_Bauer]

Personally I believe in the Big Bang…but i think God started all of it and watches over it all. Just my opinion

Pax Christi,

TemplarJPN :knight2:

I’m a bit out of the picture on science. However I do watch the programs dealing with such issues and modern scientific thought. I was under the impression that the Big Bang has already been derailed by mainstream science. There are always remnants left behind. Anyone know what the mainstream thought is on the Big Bang Theory.

 

[Blacksword]

I’m a bit out of the picture on science. However I do watch the programs dealing with such issues and modern scientific thought. I was under the impression that the Big Bang has already been derailed by mainstream science. There are always remnants left behind. Anyone know what the mainstream thought is on the Big Bang Theory.

I don’t think so, no. The Big Bang remains well-accepted. There are some whom theorize a multiverse in which “sheets” of universes occasionally hit together which “cause” the Big Bang so that Big Bangs happen over and over again, but this as of yet lacks any real evidence from my understanding.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

I don’t think so, no. The Big Bang remains well-accepted. There are some whom theorize a multiverse in which “sheets” of universes occasionally hit together which “cause” the Big Bang so that Big Bangs happen over and over again, but this as of yet lacks any real evidence from my understanding.

So how long has matter existed? Not the matter in this universe, but before 22 Billion years ago. What existed 44 billion years ago? Or for that matter What existed 1 Trillion years ago?

 

[alexpinca]

I’m a bit out of the picture on science. However I do watch the programs dealing with such issues and modern scientific thought. I was under the impression that the Big Bang has already been derailed by mainstream science. There are always remnants left behind. Anyone know what the mainstream thought is on the Big Bang Theory.

While the Big Bang is still the predominant theory… there is something called “String Theory” even more recent. I don’t pretend to understand it…I just enjoyed munching on my Tositos while they dazzled me with the brilliance. It is something about paralledl universes when they occasionally come in contact and start the craziness all over again. Wow, I thought that was some peoples version of hades.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

While the Big Bang is still the predominant theory… there is something called “String Theory” even more recent. I don’t pretend to understand it…I just enjoyed munching on my Tositos while they dazzled me with the brilliance. It is something about paralledl universes when they occasionally come in contact and start the craziness all over again. Wow, I thought that was some peoples version of hades.

Yes! This is what I was trying to remember. I’ve been hooked on Fringe and it sort of parallels this concept.

 

[supertubos]

The evidence is sketchy at best.

It’s analogous to the following: It’s like finding a drawing of a nose that belongs to a specific person and then drawing in the rest of the face and then tranforming the drawing into a photo and say this is the man/woman.

No. You find whole skeletons.
Even in amber (ambar?), whole insects almost if they were alive.
And Momooths frozen.
Xr:thumbsup:

 

[Jack_Bauer]

No. You find whole skeletons.
Even in amber (ambar?), whole insects almost if they were alive.
And Momooths frozen.
Xr:thumbsup:

It’s an analogy. It’s an incomplete drawing, smarty pants.

 

[jwinch2]

cin.org/jp2evolu.html

Blessed John Paul II discussion evolution in light of the teaching of the Church.

 

[Blacksword]

So how long has matter existed? Not the matter in this universe, but before 22 Billion years ago. What existed 44 billion years ago? Or for that matter What existed 1 Trillion years ago?

Well, that’s where things go off the rails a little for those who want to deny any God as creator: they essentially are caught in the same endless regression issue of finding a beginning, but have just moved it back another step, i.e. instead of what caused the universe to begin, it’s what caused the multiverse of infinite universes to begin. You inevitably still then ascribe the characteristics of God (self-sustaining, eternal, and timeless, having always existed without beginning or end) to the multiverse itself. The old “it’s turtles all the way down” endless regression problem.

In the end string theory and extra dimensions, infinitudes of universes and so forth seems to really just complicate things exponentially without really answering the same fundamental problem for the atheist: how did it all begin without a “beginner”?

 

[alexpinca]

Well, that’s where things go off the rails a little for those who want to deny any God as creator: they essentially are caught in the same endless regression issue of finding a beginning, but have just moved it back another step, i.e. instead of what caused the universe to begin, it’s what caused the multiverse of infinite universes to begin. You inevitably still then ascribe the characteristics of God (self-sustaining, eternal, and timeless, having always existed without beginning or end) to the multiverse itself. The old “it’s turtles all the way down” endless regression problem.

In the end string theory and extra dimensions, infinitudes of universes and so forth seems to really just complicate things exponentially without really answering the same fundamental problem for the atheist: how did it all begin without a “beginner”?

**According to the high flying physicists, String Theory states there was no beginning and no end. How that is possible is a little higher than my pay grade. **

 

[Jack_Bauer]

**According to the high flying physicists, String Theory states there was no beginning and no end. How that is possible is a little higher than my pay grade. **

Well, it makes sense if you don’t believe in a God. Everything has always been here. We only hear scientist usually speak about the what they think they see. They talk like philosophers really. In fact, if you study the history of the scientific theory you’ll find very interesting assumptions. One is that everything can be explained. Another, branched of of the first one, is that everything can be explained without referring to a creator. That’s the part that disturbs me the most. The assumptions of any argument are vital to the outcome of the syllogism, that is to say the conclusions.