T
TEPO
Guest
One of the best points I’ve seen. It’s so true.
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ringil
Guest
Part of the reason I began thinking of this issue, as I state in the OP, is my interest in joining the Knights.
Anyway, I have spoken with them and it doesn’t really look like my issues regarding the Constitution and patriotism are significant at all as an impediment in joining.
I also had some misgivings regarding a perception tha tthe Knights were very right wing and that I wouldn’t fit in. They stated this wasn’t a big deal either as politics isn’t part of their mission and men of all different types are members.
My spiritual director who is left leaning is also a member so I think I am going to go for it. I pray that it will be a good thing for me.
Anyway, I have spoken with them and it doesn’t really look like my issues regarding the Constitution and patriotism are significant at all as an impediment in joining.
I also had some misgivings regarding a perception tha tthe Knights were very right wing and that I wouldn’t fit in. They stated this wasn’t a big deal either as politics isn’t part of their mission and men of all different types are members.
My spiritual director who is left leaning is also a member so I think I am going to go for it. I pray that it will be a good thing for me.
Z
Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
Welcome future Brother Knight.
Don’t neglect to look into the great insurance programs offered by the K of C.
Z
Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
Come on Robert…
This thread started with a total** POLITICAL **question. YOU twisted things around to the spiritual.
Perhaps you should start a new thread…"Do you believe in “Catholic Exceptionalism”?
Then we could discuss the Galatians, Tobit, the writings of St. Timothy and the views of Thomas Merton.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
Forgive me but I was only addressing one of your statements made to me.
Your misrepresenting things again. The OP was interested in the following:
Clearly he’s interested in Catholic teachings, and it’s Catholic teachings that were being discussed.
Are the rude remarks really necessary?
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Robert_Sock
Guest
Yes, and I was was addressing one of you comments.
And you’re misrepresenting the true original post. Here it is again:
How on earth can a person be interested in the constitution without a clear definition of ‘liberty.’ All I did was to suggest one possible definition, and be sure you also supplied your definition of ‘liberty.’
Perhaps you should refrain from making rude comments.
LOVE!
S
sallybutler
Guest
That sounds like my mom. She use to say your freedom to swing your arm ends where someone else’s nose begins
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ruly
Guest
Today’s gospel: Jn 8:1-11, the woman caught in adultery.
American exceptionalism?
America is the beacon for “good” in the world!
Are you one of those individuals who are under the impression that other countries don’t have faults? Yes we have had our share of misgivings, but what other country hasn’t had its failures? Living in this exceptional country of ours has given us the opportunity to do something about the wrongs of the past. In this country we have the freedom to express our opinions as no other country does. We put our dirty laundry out to be seen and judge by others, who else does this?
Could I ask how, in less than 250 years, has the American population built the most prosperous, the most powerful, the most advanced civilization ever? The Europeans have been around thousands of years longer than we have – the Asians much longer than that – and yet we run rings around every one of them, and everybody else, too. It’s not even close. It’s not a contest in any way that you want to measure. So how can it be that less than 300 million Americans can rule the world as it never has been ruled before, in less than 250 years of existence? Have you ever really stopped to ask yourself this question?"
The rest of the world, all of it, has been around for – in terms of nation states – thousands of years much longer than we have. The United States is less than 300 years old. No population of people in any country has ever approached our economic prosperity in wealth, our power. No nation in the history of civilization has so dominated the world for good, as has the United States of America. We have liberated over a hundred million people from bondage and slavery. We feed the world. We clothe the world. We provide disaster relief in all circumstances to friend and foe alike. We’re the only nation on earth that can. Have you ever stopped to ask yourself how in human history this came about? What makes this possible?
You know, what happened in Philadelphia in 1776 was a miracle. Divine inspiration had to have been there. The principles may be bigger than the men who wrote 'em down, but they did write them, and they were not racists, and they were not bigots, **whatever else the PC crowd teaches today. **
Have you read the Declaration of Independence? ‘One nation under God…Creator,’ the Pledge of Allegiance? Clearly the founders of this country believed in God and believed that we were all created and that we were all created equal. ‘Certain unalienable rights, among them, life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness.’ Life, liberty, pursuit, these words mean things. You say that the principles are bigger than the people that wrote 'em down, but it took people to write them down. Where did they get the inspiration? Where did they get the intelligence? They were great people that put this country together, a country that stood the test of time like no other country in the history of civilization.
The future of our country depends on maintaining the institutions and traditions that built this country, and in order to preserve these traditions and institutions, we’ve got to understand their origin. We must admit and be honest about what they are. There’s a segment of the population who are trying to tear them down and remake the country in their own image. If there is to be a demise of our country, it is because we will lose control of maintaining the traditions and institutions that made this a great country, a great culture, a great society, a great population. There are some who will try to convince as many Americans that the country is not worth preserving as we’ve known it. Thank God for this country they have a right to express those opinions.
God Bless the USA
American exceptionalism?
America is the beacon for “good” in the world!
Are you one of those individuals who are under the impression that other countries don’t have faults? Yes we have had our share of misgivings, but what other country hasn’t had its failures? Living in this exceptional country of ours has given us the opportunity to do something about the wrongs of the past. In this country we have the freedom to express our opinions as no other country does. We put our dirty laundry out to be seen and judge by others, who else does this?
Could I ask how, in less than 250 years, has the American population built the most prosperous, the most powerful, the most advanced civilization ever? The Europeans have been around thousands of years longer than we have – the Asians much longer than that – and yet we run rings around every one of them, and everybody else, too. It’s not even close. It’s not a contest in any way that you want to measure. So how can it be that less than 300 million Americans can rule the world as it never has been ruled before, in less than 250 years of existence? Have you ever really stopped to ask yourself this question?"
The rest of the world, all of it, has been around for – in terms of nation states – thousands of years much longer than we have. The United States is less than 300 years old. No population of people in any country has ever approached our economic prosperity in wealth, our power. No nation in the history of civilization has so dominated the world for good, as has the United States of America. We have liberated over a hundred million people from bondage and slavery. We feed the world. We clothe the world. We provide disaster relief in all circumstances to friend and foe alike. We’re the only nation on earth that can. Have you ever stopped to ask yourself how in human history this came about? What makes this possible?
You know, what happened in Philadelphia in 1776 was a miracle. Divine inspiration had to have been there. The principles may be bigger than the men who wrote 'em down, but they did write them, and they were not racists, and they were not bigots, **whatever else the PC crowd teaches today. **
Have you read the Declaration of Independence? ‘One nation under God…Creator,’ the Pledge of Allegiance? Clearly the founders of this country believed in God and believed that we were all created and that we were all created equal. ‘Certain unalienable rights, among them, life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness.’ Life, liberty, pursuit, these words mean things. You say that the principles are bigger than the people that wrote 'em down, but it took people to write them down. Where did they get the inspiration? Where did they get the intelligence? They were great people that put this country together, a country that stood the test of time like no other country in the history of civilization.
The future of our country depends on maintaining the institutions and traditions that built this country, and in order to preserve these traditions and institutions, we’ve got to understand their origin. We must admit and be honest about what they are. There’s a segment of the population who are trying to tear them down and remake the country in their own image. If there is to be a demise of our country, it is because we will lose control of maintaining the traditions and institutions that made this a great country, a great culture, a great society, a great population. There are some who will try to convince as many Americans that the country is not worth preserving as we’ve known it. Thank God for this country they have a right to express those opinions.
God Bless the USA
T
TexCatholic4JMJ
Guest
Wow, you’ve said it well and I agree.Today’s gospel: Jn 8:1-11, the woman caught in adultery.
American exceptionalism?
America is the beacon for “good” in the world!
Are you one of those individuals who are under the impression that other countries don’t have faults? Yes we have had our share of misgivings, but what other country hasn’t had its failures? Living in this exceptional country of ours has given us the opportunity to do something about the wrongs of the past. In this country we have the freedom to express our opinions as no other country does. We put our dirty laundry out to be seen and judge by others, who else does this?
Could I ask how, in less than 250 years, has the American population built the most prosperous, the most powerful, the most advanced civilization ever? The Europeans have been around thousands of years longer than we have – the Asians much longer than that – and yet we run rings around every one of them, and everybody else, too. It’s not even close. It’s not a contest in any way that you want to measure. So how can it be that less than 300 million Americans can rule the world as it never has been ruled before, in less than 250 years of existence? Have you ever really stopped to ask yourself this question?"
The rest of the world, all of it, has been around for – in terms of nation states – thousands of years much longer than we have. The United States is less than 300 years old. No population of people in any country has ever approached our economic prosperity in wealth, our power. No nation in the history of civilization has so dominated the world for good, as has the United States of America. We have liberated over a hundred million people from bondage and slavery. We feed the world. We clothe the world. We provide disaster relief in all circumstances to friend and foe alike. We’re the only nation on earth that can. Have you ever stopped to ask yourself how in human history this came about? What makes this possible?
You know, what happened in Philadelphia in 1776 was a miracle. Divine inspiration had to have been there. The principles may be bigger than the men who wrote 'em down, but they did write them, and they were not racists, and they were not bigots, **whatever else the PC crowd teaches today. **
Have you read the Declaration of Independence? ‘One nation under God…Creator,’ the Pledge of Allegiance? Clearly the founders of this country believed in God and believed that we were all created and that we were all created equal. ‘Certain unalienable rights, among them, life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness.’ Life, liberty, pursuit, these words mean things. You say that the principles are bigger than the people that wrote 'em down, but it took people to write them down. Where did they get the inspiration? Where did they get the intelligence? They were great people that put this country together, a country that stood the test of time like no other country in the history of civilization.
The future of our country depends on maintaining the institutions and traditions that built this country, and in order to preserve these traditions and institutions, we’ve got to understand their origin. We must admit and be honest about what they are. There’s a segment of the population who are trying to tear them down and remake the country in their own image. If there is to be a demise of our country, it is because we will lose control of maintaining the traditions and institutions that made this a great country, a great culture, a great society, a great population. There are some who will try to convince as many Americans that the country is not worth preserving as we’ve known it. Thank God for this country they have a right to express those opinions.
God Bless the USA
Z
Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
No, I did not supply MY definition of “liberty”…I supplied THE definition of “liberty”. Right out of the dictionary.
Oh lighten up Robert…Perhaps you should refrain from making rude comments.
LOVE!
I do not make rude comments. I made a friendly suggestion based on your interests that manifest themselves here and on other threads where we have met.
How can i be rude to you…I enjoy you too much.
R
Robert_Sock
Guest
It’s still the definition you freely chose. You could have chosen Galatians, but you passed. How can you possibly say that you did not choose it, but it ended up as your choice of definitions, with your name attached to it? It even says, “my definition.” You have reputation, and everybody seeing this will form their own opinion. Please be fair and just. Error on the side of righteousness. Your rewards will be great!
Here’s your definition:
So there was nothing you could have done to tone things down just a bit?
And I enjoy interacting with you too. Weren’t there several other questions that I asked? Are you postponing them indefinitely?How can i be rude to you…I enjoy you too much.
Z
Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
I copied that definition from the dictionary. I accept it. They are not my words, but since I accept it I guess you could say it is my definition.
Galatians 5:13 is not a definition of liberty/freedom. It is a directive about the application of liberty or freedom.
Yes. You asked if I were a libertarian.
Answer: No.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
We agree then!
It may not be a definition per se, but it surely describes what ‘liberty’ meant according to the Apostles, and I do declare it as partially reflecting my own definition.
Gal 5:13 (Douay Rheims)
13 For you, brethren, have been called unto liberty: only make not liberty an occasion to the flesh, but by charity of the spirit serve one another.
I misjudged you then, so sorry!
LOVE!
M
migueltojose
Guest
Yes. The Holy Spirit is doing cartwheels in my soul. We can all be exceptional. We should all be exceptional. Especially Americans. But everyone else too. I say especially Americans because we got such a head start on the rest of the world.
*“I don’t believe that God had any special hand in the creation of the US- except to the same degree as He has his hand in all human endeavors.” * Try reading ‘1776’ by David McCullough. A lot of things that appear to be at least ‘providential’ occurred.
The Constitution is an amazing document paid for with the blood of previous generations of Europeans and Americans who later synthesized many different ideas into one pithy, cogent, adaptable document for the benefit of all mankind.
At just the right time in history we were given land, natural resources and inexpensive labor. I’m not going to argue regarding the Native Americans versus Manifest Destiny. It was inevitable, and it is history. What Jefferson, Franklin and Adams envisioned as the great American experiment remains unfinished. Arguably, if they were here they might think it was a failure because it appears we can’t handle freedom and have to be told what to do, when and where to do it and who to do it with.
I believe we need to get back to raising our children and teaching the adults to be responsible citizens who CHOOSE to be good and do right. And do not have a government that has to enforce laws. For the great experiment to work we need less government and more self governing. And if we can’t handle it then the great American experiment is a colossal failure. And I for one do not want to surrender to that… ever…
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Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
Yes ,Robert…we agreeWe agree then!
Here is where we don’t agree.
Gal 5:13 does not define liberty/freedom. Nor does it provide St Paul’s understanding of liberty/freedom.
To understand the Bible, I go to original scripture. (I can read Latin but not Greek). Then I read the whole text of the chapter…rather than relying on a single verse.
When you start at Gal 5, you find that St Paul says: “For freedom Christ set us free; so stand firm and do not submit again to the yoke of slavery.”
I could say that is a better definition of Freedom/liberty than :13 but, like :13, it is not really a definition either. Actually it is a “setup” for 5:13. Here St Paul acknowledges the freedom Christ gave us and DIRECTS the Galatians to use that freedom (of choice) to serve our fellow man. Essentially we have the FREEDOM to do good…but freedom/liberty is not defined.
My definition (from the dictionary) is correct.
R
Robert_Sock
Guest
Gal 5:1 is speaking of spiritual freedom, is it not? If not, why would St Paul be speaking of physical freedom? The ‘yoke’ would seem to be symbolic.
LOVE! <3
R
ringil
Guest
You know, Robert and Zoltan,
I’m not even precisely sure what you guys are going back and forth about!
I’m not even precisely sure what you guys are going back and forth about!
P
patrick457
Guest
First off, let me say that I’m not American, so I really don’t have a horse in the race, and I’ll obviously say that I don’t think that America is exceptional or special or more divinely guided than any other country on earth. And I don’t like to talk about politics.
To be honest, I am wary of hyper-nationalism: where you begin to think that your own country is somehow the only divinely guided nation there is that is superior than anything else in the world and can do no wrong. (Although to be honest, I also would be cautious of the other extreme, where you’re ashamed of your country and try to cast dirt on it now and again.) It’s kinda like the race issue: only instead of claiming that one section of humanity is superior to all others, it’s a piece of land and a government somewhere on the Earth. Another poster mentioned this I believe, but living in another country really opens one’s eyes and gives one a new perspective. It did the same for me when I moved from the Philippines to Japan.
P.S. It’s not always the case that the other nations will see the ‘help’ another country gives in a positive light, and of course, the ‘help’ is not always going to bring good results. It’s the same with America: Americans might see America as trying to help other nations it considers to be less fortunate than their country, but the other party might see this as unnecessary meddling. Worse, it might be seen as an act of conquest of sorts: big empire tries to expand by gaining control of little nations, although unlike in the Middle Ages where this stuff mainly happens out front with wars and sieges and political marriages and whatnot, now it’s mainly done behind the scenes under more mundane guises.
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Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
Join the club, ringil.You know, Robert and Zoltan,
I’m not even precisely sure what you guys are going back and forth about!
About now I am wondering what our discussion has to do with the subject of the thread.
Sorry, but Robert and I “tilt” with each other on many threads. We tend to go off on tangents.
I, for one, will try to keep on track…I can’t speak for Robert. (He starts it) :banghead:
Again apologies for the confusion and the waste of bandwith.
PS: I hope you accepted my explanation of what American Exceptionalism really is. (Posts # 22 and #33)
Z
Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
Greetings fellow “Silver Sword”
I was born in Budapest Hungry and moved to the U.S. in 1957 after my parents were killed by communists during the revolution. I was 12 years old.
12 years is all the extensive experience I gained living outside the U.S. as a civilian. I need no more.
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