Do you believe in luck?

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Scapegoat said:
Very true which is why I believe the only thing God is said to permit is sin. The book explains it better; I really recommend checking it out if you’re able to. I personally cannot see how we can assigne a moral view to a natural disaster. I mean as the scriptures say God causes his sun to rise upon the good and the bad and it rains on the just as well as the unjust (Matthew 5:45). To say that God does not control the weather, seasons, or even the very elements which make up your body is in my opinion, wrong. Not even a hair on my head will parish unless it is willed by God. Just read the story of Job in where natural disasters, diseases, etc. we’re all from the hand of God. And what did Job say regarding this mystery? The Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away: as it hath pleased the Lord so is it done: blessed be the name of the Lord. 👍 I mean was the flood not caused by God?
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Not everything in the Old Testament should be taken literally. God does not inflict death and suffering on anyone deliberately.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
I have a friend who has termed these “Christ-incidences.”

🙂

“What an amazing Christ-incidence it was that Mary turned up in Mass just as I was thinking about her and wondering how she was!”
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Does that not qualify as taking the name of God in vain :confused:

I thought the use of the name God, Jesus and Christ was to be used sparingly and only when necessary out of respect for the Name 🤷

Sarah x 🙂
 
tonyrey said:
Not all the effects of secondary causes are willed by God.
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As I said before, some secondary causes are ALLOWED by God. Everything works for his will ultimately, though, whether it is ordained, decreed or allowed.

Please re-read what I wrote carefully. You are arguing against something I did not say.
 
tonyrey said:
Not everything in the Old Testament should be taken literally. God does not inflict death and suffering on anyone deliberately.
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What about The Flood? If you believe that occurred, then YES, the LORD did inflict death on most of the human population on Earth. If you do not believe the Flood of Genesis happened, then you must prove that, for scripture declares it did.
 
johnnyjones said:
When Jesus prayed in the garden he said ,“Father take this cup from me…never the less thy will be done.” Christs death although horrible was Gods plan. The flood although terrible was Gods plan for a new beginning, just as the Christs death is a new beginning. The flood was Gods will from what study I have done.
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I’m pretty sure scripture says God was displeased.
 
Justice_Mercy said:
What about The Flood? If you believe that occurred, then YES, the LORD did inflict death on most of the human population on Earth. If you do not believe the Flood of Genesis happened, then you must prove that, for scripture declares it did.
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The Flood was due to natural causes.
 
tonyrey said:
The Flood was due to natural causes.
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Not according to scripture :

2 Peter 2: 1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,a putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;** 5if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; **7and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.c 10This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful natured and despise authority.
 
Justice_Mercy said:
Not according to scripture :

2 Peter 2: 1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,a putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;** 5if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; **7and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.c 10This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful natured and despise authority.
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This is a fundamentalist interpretation.
 
Luck is what you make of it too. Some people are given good looks, brains, and money and they just squander their lives away. Some are born with nothing and rise up to become something great.

Some people win the lottery and within a year all the money is gone.

I think we should be okay with what we are given, bad or good, and try to do our best with what God has bestowed on each of us. Luck really isn’t part of the equation.
 
tonyrey said:
Then you must believe natural disasters are willed by God rather than permitted…
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I believe some are caused by God and some are allowed, yes.
That is exactly how scripture speaks of those things in many places - all things that happen work ultimately for God’s will:

Romans 8: 28** And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.** 29For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.​

also:

Romans 8: 14What shall we say then? I**s there injustice on God’s part? By no means! **15For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion,b but on God, who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault?** For who can resist his will?” 20But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,**
 
Scapegoat said:
Very true which is why I believe the only thing God is said to permit is sin. The book explains it better; I really recommend checking it out if you’re able to. I personally cannot see how we can assigne a moral view to a natural disaster. I mean as the scriptures say God causes his sun to rise upon the good and the bad and it rains on the just as well as the unjust (Matthew 5:45). To say that God does not control the weather, seasons, or even the very elements which make up your body is in my opinion, wrong. Not even a hair on my head will parish unless it is willed by God. Just read the story of Job in where natural disasters, diseases, etc. we’re all from the hand of God. And what did Job say regarding this mystery? The Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away: as it hath pleased the Lord so is it done: blessed be the name of the Lord. 👍 I mean was the flood not caused by God?
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God does not control the weather, seasons, or the elements directly but through the laws of nature.
 
Justice_Mercy said:
I believe some are caused by God and some are allowed, yes.
That is exactly how scripture speaks of those things in many places - all things that happen work ultimately for God’s will…
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The key word is “ultimately”. Natural disasters are not intended or caused by God but permitted. God is the Creator not the Destroyer.
 
tonyrey said:
God does not control the weather, seasons, or the elements directly but through the laws of nature.
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If you go by this 100%, that is a Deist view, not a Theistic one.
The God of the Bible is **THEOS **!!
 
Justice_Mercy said:
You have not shown one verse supporting ANY of your presuppositions/opinions.
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There are plenty of verses in the New Testament in which God is described as a loving Father who cares for all His children, good and evil alike.
 
tonyrey said:
Do you interpret **every **verse of the Old Testament literally?
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That was a quote from the New Testament re: the OT Flood

“Literally” as in the type of literature, intended audience, history behind the writing, use of imagery/metaphor vs direct language, etc : YES
Woodenly literal as a Fundamentalist: NO !!!

You still have not supported your opinions with any evidence from any source whatsoever
 
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