Do you believe in NDE's?

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I’m not one to easily trust what I read on the internet. Ive heard and read of many people who have NDE’s (near death experiences) and they are all different. I don’t necessarily take what they say as truth, but I do take their advice of the morality of their stories. Anyways, recently one I found a little shocking that I wanted to share… It’s of a girl who died at age 12 and had a visit with Jesus for apparently 23 hours. When she went to hell she saw many famous people there. I wasn’t surprised of that until she mentioned who one of them were. This girl claims that when Jesus was showing her hell, she saw Pope John Paul II there. Now, I was pretty shocked. You’d think one of the most Godly people would be in heaven, right? I’m not sure what to make of this. She had asked God why he was there and Jesus replied:

“Look, Daughter, that man that you see there, is Pope John Paul II. He is here in this place; he is being tormented because he did not repent. He may have said many things, but he would never speak the truth as it is. He never said the truth and they know the truth and although he knew the truth, he preferred money over preaching about salvation. He would not offer reality; would not say that hell is real and that heaven also exists; Daughter, now he is here in this place.”

I suggest you read it before respond if you can. 🙂 Tell me your thoughts.
 
I hope you don’t dismiss my post because I didn’t read what you presented. But I did glance at the site. From what I saw that’s not a Catholic site, or at least not one faithful to the Magisterium.

Regarding NDEs they are private revelations and any private revelation can be either from God or the Devil.

Regarding our last Holy Father someone more knowledgeable than myself can inform you of his massive body of work preaching the Gospel. I think the problem is that the media almost universally ignored his 25+ years of preaching or twisted his words around.
 
I generally accept NDE’s as a true experience.

As far as I know, the Church has never declared that any person in particular is in Hell. Thus, it is very hard for me to accept this girl’s NDE as anything but wrong and evil.
 
I read a little of it.

Personally, I think NDE’s are your own concept of an afterlife (Though, I don’t discount that some are or could be revelations from God). That said, she does state that she’s an evangelical and (at least in my experience) they are extremely anti-Catholic (remember, the Church is the whore of Revelation :rolleyes:). So, she may have had some strong anti-Catholic leanings which lead to this.

That said, everything I’ve said is pure conjecture.
 
JPII is a blessed now, which means he has at least one miracle attributed to him, and is on the track to Sainthood. He wouldn’t be able to obtain miracles if he was in Hell, or even purgatory, and the Church’s position on who is a saint and what counts as a miracle is very strict. I’d say that this girl’s story was either entirely made up, or caused by forces that are not from God. It is anti-Catholic and sensationalized, they obviously just wanted to name drop various dead famous people. It advocates for the rapture, which is not a Catholic belief, and calls Catholics idolaters for praying to Mary and the saints. I would not waist your time with this site. I think it’s Jehovah’s Witness run, because of how Jesus first identifies himself.
 
Ladygem said:
JPII is a blessed now, which means he has at least one miracle attributed to him, and is on the track to Sainthood. He wouldn’t be able to obtain miracles if he was in Hell, or even purgatory, and the Church’s position on who is a saint and what counts as a miracle is very strict. I’d say that this girl’s story was either entirely made up, or caused by forces that are not from God. It is anti-Catholic and sensationalized, they obviously just wanted to name drop various dead famous people. It advocates for the rapture, which is not a Catholic belief, and calls Catholics idolaters for praying to Mary and the saints. I would not waist your time with this site. I think it’s Jehovah’s Witness run, because of how Jesus first identifies himself.
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👍
 
PumpkinSeed said:
I’m not one to easily trust what I read on the internet. Ive heard and read of many people who have NDE’s (near death experiences) and they are all different. I don’t necessarily take what they say as truth, but I do take their advice of the morality of their stories. Anyways, recently one I found a little shocking that I wanted to share… It’s of a girl who died at age 12 and had a visit with Jesus for apparently 23 hours. When she went to hell she saw many famous people there. I wasn’t surprised of that until she mentioned who one of them were. This girl claims that when Jesus was showing her hell, she saw Pope John Paul II there. Now, I was pretty shocked. You’d think one of the most Godly people would be in heaven, right? I’m not sure what to make of this. She had asked God why he was there and Jesus replied:

“Look, Daughter, that man that you see there, is Pope John Paul II. He is here in this place; he is being tormented because he did not repent. He may have said many things, but he would never speak the truth as it is. He never said the truth and they know the truth and although he knew the truth, he preferred money over preaching about salvation. He would not offer reality; would not say that hell is real and that heaven also exists; Daughter, now he is here in this place.”

I really don’t know what to think. Here is the source of my post (and scroll down half way through and you will see her conversation with Jesus about him) : spiritlessons.com/Documents/Prepare_to_meet_your_God/index.htm

I suggest you read it before respond if you can. 🙂 Tell me your thoughts.
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I’ve heard this “story” before. It’s sickening. Nothing more to say about it…
 
Yea, for real. That place is baaaad. For example: It said behind every Roman Catholic statue is a demon! Plus it denied that Mary had any idea what was going on in the world. Just more hardcore Evangelical stuff. I wouldn’t fret over it.
 
Reputable NDE research is interesting. They tend to be very similar regardless of religion or where in the world you’re from. Even people who have been blind from birth have described what was happening around them when they were dead with startling accuracy. But I doubt Jesus is going to appear to one girl just to tell her Catholics are bad. Once you enter heaven or hell it seems unlikely you would come back, especially since those accounts are rare and almost always support that person’s beliefs.
 
PumpkinSeed said:
I really don’t know what to think… Tell me your thoughts.
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I’ve had an OBE and what amounted to an NDE, What’s known about these is that there are potentially seven distinct phases of such an experience, and that one can have any from none to all of them during the kind of trauma or whatever that might bring one on.

Also, one interprets the imagery of the experience according to their cultural inculcation, similar to what Hat4 says. One will see a light interpreted or personified as whatever stands in their mind as their highest spiritual ideal. this would lead one to understand that there is a deeoper underlying reality to the phenomenon than can be attributed to a belief system as the stages are constant while the intterpretation of them changes according to the individual’s background. Danion Brinkleys conclusions in this matter seem to me to be the most reasonable, though somewhat shocking. On the other hand it agrees with what many contemplatives either say or imply;

I’m not an authority on the phenomenon, but while some experiences contain a lot of detail, they are yet generally subject to the interpretation of the person having the NDE* according to the level of attainment and understanding which is their norm.* So while a great mystic might have one sort of an experiece, and a great contemplative another and deeper one, a nominal religious person might just be in the realm where much of psychic phenomenon might stem from. In other words, just because she saw it, it doesn’t necessarily mean it was gospel. It is just what she thinks she saw.

And I would also wonder, since she was 12 at the time, who might have influenced her as to the re-telling, as that might have been a factor as well. Nevertheless, the whole phenomenon is very fascinating!
 
It is possible the people have experience which happen when they are near to death, but that is no particular reason to give them any credibility.
 
Qoeleth said:
It is possible the people have experience which happen when they are near to death, but that is no particular reason to give them any credibility.
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I agree, Qoeleth. What makes it interesting, though, to an inquiring mind, is that while it is one thing to make that assessment about random reportage, NDE experiences have a remarkable consistency in their form, content, and progression. That would heavily tend to indicate that there is an actual structural phenomenon worthy of note and study. But that is not a requirement, of course, and most folks go their merry way happily ignoring what are consensus facts for those who are systematic in their considerations, moral. spiritual, or scientific. It is always easier to follow the mind’s lazy tendency to declare itself right under nearly any circumstances, rather than to actually do work integrating the different areas of human experience into a more accurate model of God’s Creation.
 
All near death experiences vary from person to person. I do not believe its possible for Hell and heaven to have thousands of different forms. That wouldn’t make sense to me.
 
I put NDEs in the same category as UFOs (=alien ships flying around in our atmosphere) – I believe in their being possible, but I’m holding a very skeptical mind until I see/have one myself. With regard to the one mentioned in the OP, I would have to interview the girl myself; I wouldn’t trust any second- or third-hand reports, especially ones that come off sounding like they have an ideological ax to grind.
 
NDEs seem to be different for different people. There does not seem to be “one truth”.

I had mystical experiences that point to Catholicism being truth. The Blessed Mother says to pray for conversion. There are Eucharistic miracles like at Poland. Why would God permit miracles and want people to embrace Christ if anybody of any religion with or without regard to vincible ignorance can go to heaven?

I believe in one truth, the Church of Christ. If I am wrong then I will still go to heaven by what I know of NDEs, I believe. On the other hand if I am right, then I will still find salvation for following Christ.

NDEs could be diabolical: it just gives people reason to shun Christianity. Or they can be the truth, which I hope, for the sake of my unbelieving family. But then why does Mary want people to convert?
 
InJesusItrust said:
NDEs seem to be different for different people. There does not seem to be “one truth”.
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Of course they are different for different people. What is fascinating is that their pattern is cross culturally the same.

~~!
NDEs could be diabolical: it just gives people reason to shun Christianity. Or they can be the truth, which I hope, for the sake of my unbelieving family. But then why does Mary want people to convert?
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Why would you say that? Do Christians who have them leave their denominations in droves? And as far as Mary is concerned, as rightful as devotion to her may be, are not apparitions kind of the same as NDE’s? In them, the experiencer interprets the “person” or “light entity” according to their religion.

And I like DaveBj’s skepticism regarding the OP’s reference.
 
In know a few people online who refuse to believe in Christianity because most NDEs seem to preach a universalist message.

On the other hand things like stigmata, Eucharistic miracles, and events like at Fatima where objective miracles are witnessed do not point to universalism.
 
Personally I think theyre just hallucinations. I have a hard time believing that the after life is different for every person, Its just dmt the brain is releasing at the moment of death. What does freak me out are the ones where they say they were floating over their bodies and an even remember what relatives were talking about, now thats crazy! lol
 
InJesusItrust said:
In know a few people online who refuse to believe in Christianity because most NDEs seem to preach a universalist message.

On the other hand things like stigmata, Eucharistic miracles, and events like at Fatima where objective miracles are witnessed do not point to universalism.
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If im not mistaken, the fatima experience was witnessed to 70,000 people, right?
 
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