Do you believe in the powers of the spirit

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I am not implying anything…I don’t like Charismatic services and told why…From there you have spun all kinds of tales

I will not be conversing with you again
LOL that is fine redrosetea. I don’t believe I’ve spun any tales. I think you are upset because I dared to call you out for what your post was really about. But it has gotten me thinking. I’ve let the Rad Trads put me off checking out the TLM. Just as some more out there charismatics have put some off that type of mass, I’ve myself have not been any better by allowing the more radical Traditionalists put me off learning more about the TLM.

If we each allowed an individual or two put us off learning more, understanding more and overcoming our predjudices and ignorance we are going to stagnate. I don’t want to stagnate. I would like to check out the TLM and will find some time to do so.

Maybe one day you might allow yourself to understand a bit more about the charismatic side of our Faith and not let one mass and a few individuals colour your view as I’ve allowed others to colour my view of certain things within our Church.

You might be upset about what I’ve written in reply to you, but it has all been good for me. I’ve realised I can be just as predjudiced at the next person.
 
This thread reminds me of when John Vennari was documenting the charismatic movement. He began “speaking in tongues” (actually, he started saying actual psalms in Hebrew) and some nearby began to “interpret with their own powers of the spirit”. the interpreters were all wrong. Surprised? I’m not.:rolleyes:
 
it can’t get any better than the Eucharist 🙂

no matter how many spiritual gifts or experiences you have… it still won’t compare to Jesus’ real presence in the Eucharist… just think… He’s physically present there… can’t get any closer to Him than in Communion.

so I don’t think the Mass lacks anything.

Protestant services however are missing quite a lot, no matter how spiritually fulfilling they FEEL and btw, I used to be evangelical Protestant 😉

God bless.
 
When it comes to comments by those who consider their Mass the superior mode of worship, it appears that despite its beauty, it is not effective in the lives of its attendees. Christ forbids our judging one another’s soul in any case. At the very least, it is uncharitable to do so, yet critics of one sort of Mass over another feel very comfortable with themselves in doing this. (Case in point: charismatics who wave their arms during Mass are automatically immature and doing it for “theatrics”).
Code:
 It would seem to me that if one's mode of worship were as sincere as it was outwardly beautiful, it would make him  **more**charitable, rather than less.  That the person would work to attract others to Christ, not just his particular chapel or church.  This has not been the case. 

  What is more, certain types who hold themselves out as worshippers of a superior kind are not the ones I meet outside the abortion clinics, the food kitchens, the Adoration chapels (unless it's **theirs**).  They lock themselves away at  their beautiful chapels, lest they contaminate themselves with the immature types.  After all, they have spent their fortunes on renovating these beautiful chapels, and enjoy  patting themselves on each other's  backs for a job well done.

 Who do I see out in the Lord's Vineyard?   Why I'll be a monkey's uncle.  It's the charismatics I see out at the abortuaries, the food kitchens, youth groups, and yes, in the Adoration Chapels, Processions and on and on.  

 I don't judge the souls of people who belong to this elite club, but, I certainly thank God He has seen fit to show me this reality so I could steer away from it.
 
This thread reminds me of when John Vennari was documenting the charismatic movement. He began “speaking in tongues” (actually, he started saying actual psalms in Hebrew) and some nearby began to “interpret with their own powers of the spirit”. the interpreters were all wrong. Surprised? I’m not.:rolleyes:
No, you got the story mixed up. John Vennari tells it, but it was about Gerry Matatics.

The story goes that when Gerry was still a Protestant, he went to a charismatic prayer meeting. He had his suspicious about the whole “speaking in tongues” thing. Therefore, to test his suspicions he quoted the 23rd Psalm (The Lord is my Shepherd, etc), which he has just learned in Hebrew. After each person said their “prayer” in tongues, the “interpreter” would provide the interpretation… and that he did with Gerry’s prayer.

The official interpretation of Gerry’s prayer was that “God wants us all to give generously so that a new wing be added to the Pastor’s house”. Needless to say Gerry’s suspicions were confirmed.
 
When it comes to comments by those who consider their Mass the superior mode of worship, it appears that despite its beauty, it is not effective in the lives of its attendees. Christ forbids our judging one another’s soul in any case. At the very least, it is uncharitable to do so, yet critics of one sort of Mass over another feel very comfortable with themselves in doing this. (Case in point: charismatics who wave their arms during Mass are automatically immature and doing it for “theatrics”).
Code:
 It would seem to me that if one's mode of worship were as sincere as it was outwardly beautiful, it would make him  **more**charitable, rather than less.  That the person would work to attract others to Christ, not just his particular chapel or church.  This has not been the case. 

  What is more, certain types who hold themselves out as worshippers of a superior kind are not the ones I meet outside the abortion clinics, the food kitchens, the Adoration chapels (unless it's **theirs**).  They lock themselves away at  their beautiful chapels, lest they contaminate themselves with the immature types.  After all, they have spent their fortunes on renovating these beautiful chapels, and enjoy  patting themselves on each other's  backs for a job well done.

 Who do I see out in the Lord's Vineyard?   Why I'll be a monkey's uncle.  It's the charismatics I see out at the abortuaries, the food kitchens, youth groups, and yes, in the Adoration Chapels, Processions and on and on.  

 I don't judge the souls of people who belong to this elite club, but, I certainly thank God He has seen fit to show me this reality so I could steer away from it.
Ceil, I think that you may be generalizing a bit here… 😉 maybe it’s what you have observed but…
I’m not against the charismatic renewal, in fact I have friends who are charismatic and they’re great Catholics. But I also have friends who are great Catholics and not charismatics.

I myself am not charismatic…

I’m actually more of a traditional Catholic, the type of describe. My favourite Mass is the TLM… I love adoration… books by the Saints… beautiful chapels… all that. I don’t think that makes me “lesser” in any way. I used to be non denom Protestant and my form of worship and beliefs was much like the charismatics’, though I never spoke in tongues etc. And I’ve grown much more in the Church and with all the ‘traditional’ stuff than even in my old Protestant church - though I’m grateful for it cause it introduced me to God. 🙂

It was at Adoration that God taught me how to love people more, showed me that I need to die to self, to serve others… the Eucharist IS the ‘source and summit’ of the Christian life, and if some don’t experience it as such - or don’t experience the Mass as such - often that’s not the fault of the Mass, and obviously not of the Eucharist, but of their own approach. Not saying my approach is perfect. But I’m sure that anyone who commits to spending time with Jesus in the Eucharist will see what I mean.

You talk about ‘locking yourself up in beautiful chapels’ and compare that to helping the poor, working with youth, helping end abortion, etc… I don’t really understand that to be honest… weren’t ALL the Saints devoted to the Eucharist and to Adoration? I’d actually say they were quite “traditional”… 😉 they cared about reverence in the Mass… they spent hours with Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, yes in beautiful chapels, and then hours serving others with humility and love…

I don’t think these are mutually exclusive?

I guess what I’m saying is, not all ‘traditional’ Catholics are like what you describe 😉

So some of my friends and I like the TLM… we also participated in the 40 hours for life campaign, stood outside teh abortion clinic and prayed… my friends are really involved in their parishes…

hey so don’t generalize 🙂

God bless.
 
No, you got the story mixed up. John Vennari tells it, but it was about Gerry Matatics.

The story goes that when Gerry was still a Protestant, he went to a charismatic prayer meeting. He had his suspicious about the whole “speaking in tongues” thing. Therefore, to test his suspicions he quoted the 23rd Psalm (The Lord is my Shepherd, etc), which he has just learned in Hebrew. After each person said their “prayer” in tongues, the “interpreter” would provide the interpretation… and that he did with Gerry’s prayer.

The official interpretation of Gerry’s prayer was that “God wants us all to give generously so that a new wing be added to the Pastor’s house”. Needless to say Gerry’s suspicions were confirmed.
oops. I was told that story second-hand, so I forgot who was the one. thanks for setting me straight.
 
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