Do you believe in this statement

[Roblox84]

So I went to chruch today and heard this statement at the sermon. “God teaches us to love, not religion, not the church, but the love of Christ”. I just want to know if this statement is true or not, and where in the bible did it come from. Thanks everyone

 

[Dokimas]

So I went to chruch today and heard this statement at the sermon. “God teaches us to love, not religion, not the church, but the love of Christ”. I just want to know if this statement is true or not, and where in the bible did it come from. Thanks everyone

Mt 22:37 Jesus said to him, "‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’​

1Pe 2:17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.​

1Pe 3:8 Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous;​

1Jo 4:20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?​

1Jo 4:21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Mt 22:37 Jesus said to him, "‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’​

1Pe 2:17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.​

1Pe 3:8 Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous;​

1Jo 4:20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?​

1Jo 4:21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

and where does it say and not the Church?

you read Scriptures as if the Church did not exist. when this is the Church speaking. this a teaching of the Church. speaking to people in the Church and not for those outside the Church.

 

[wisdomseeker]

So I went to chruch today and heard this statement at the sermon. “God teaches us to love, not religion, not the church, but the love of Christ”. I just want to know if this statement is true or not, and where in the bible did it come from. Thanks everyone

i dont know why he said that. but one should not play Scriptures against the Church.

this is a protestant preaching since they dont believe there is a Church.

if you love Christ you will also love the Church. just ask St Paul.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I find that a very problematic, polarizing and ultimately untrue statement that raises a false dichotomy in attempting to separate “God’s love” FROM religion and the Church.

Of course it is God who teaches us to love. But saying that the Church has in effect 'nothing to do" with God’s love is totally wrong.

God gave us a Church as part OF His love, and attempting to argue that ‘religion and the Church’ are not "the love of Christ’ shows a very, um, ‘skewed’ view of religion and particularly the Catholic Church.

So I don’t believe the statement as the OP gave it is true. I think it is a biased, incomplete statement which presents a truth–God is the one who teaches and gives us love–as though He did so 'WITHOUT" religion and/or The Church --and that second part is of course false.

I’m sure the priest giving the sermon meant to give the ‘whole’ message about God’s love and probably he is far better educated than I and could point out all sorts of hermaneutics that proved his point. . .but I’m also sure that as with so many ‘ambiguous’ teachings that look ‘orthodox’ enough, it can be taken also as a ‘jab’ that the Church is ‘not necessary’. Certainly it would have been far better for the statement to have been something like, “God’s love for us is very important, and He gave us His Son and His Son gave us the Church to help lead us to all truth, as a part of that love.” That would have been a much clearer picture of the reality of Catholic teaching and far less prone to being MISUNDERSTOOD.

 

[Dokimas]

and where does it say and not the Church?

you read Scriptures as if the Church did not exist. when this is the Church speaking. this a teaching of the Church. speaking to people in the Church and not for those outside the Church.

You don’t read me very carefully, do you?​

You’re a perfect example of a catholic who doesn’t know what a non-catholic Christian believes.​

I have said over and over again ad nauseum that the church is people. so when we are told to love the brotherhood.​

Could you show me where we are told to love a building?

 

[Dokimas]

i dont know why he said that. but one should not play Scriptures against the Church.

this is a protestant preaching since they dont believe there is a Church.

This is simplely NOT true. You do better not speaking of things you don’t have a clue about.

 

[Dokimas]

Have you ever wondered what God thinks about religion?​

Ac 25:19 "but had some questions against him about their own religion and about a certain Jesus, who had died, whom Paul affirmed to be alive.
Ac 26:5 "They knew me from the first, if they were willing to testify, that according to the strictest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
Col 2:23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
Jas 1:26 If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless.
Jas 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.​

How many of these verses paint religion in a positive light?​

Shouldn’t we choose relationship over religion? relationship with God? relationship with fellow Christians? relationship with the needy? relationship with those with lost souls?

 

[Roblox84]

I find that a very problematic, polarizing and ultimately untrue statement that raises a false dichotomy in attempting to separate “God’s love” FROM religion and the Church.

Of course it is God who teaches us to love. But saying that the Church has in effect 'nothing to do" with God’s love is totally wrong.

God gave us a Church as part OF His love, and attempting to argue that ‘religion and the Church’ are not "the love of Christ’ shows a very, um, ‘skewed’ view of religion and particularly the Catholic Church.

So I don’t believe the statement as the OP gave it is true. I think it is a biased, incomplete statement which presents a truth–God is the one who teaches and gives us love–as though He did so 'WITHOUT" religion and/or The Church --and that second part is of course false.

I’m sure the priest giving the sermon meant to give the ‘whole’ message about God’s love and probably he is far better educated than I and could point out all sorts of hermaneutics that proved his point. . .but I’m also sure that as with so many ‘ambiguous’ teachings that look ‘orthodox’ enough, it can be taken also as a ‘jab’ that the Church is ‘not necessary’. Certainly it would have been far better for the statement to have been something like, “God’s love for us is very important, and He gave us His Son and His Son gave us the Church to help lead us to all truth, as a part of that love.” That would have been a much clearer picture of the reality of Catholic teaching and far less prone to being MISUNDERSTOOD.

Actually it wasn’t a priest, the sermon was done by a Baptist pastor of a church that I attend with someone.

 

[Dokimas]

and where does it say and not the Church?

you read Scriptures as if the Church did not exist. when this is the Church speaking. this a teaching of the Church. speaking to people in the Church and not for those outside the Church.

And which of the verses I posted is against loving who God wants us to love?

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

You don’t read me very carefully, do you?​

You’re a perfect example of a catholic who doesn’t know what a non-catholic Christian believes.​

I have said over and over again ad nauseum that the church is people. so when we are told to love the brotherhood.​

Could you show me where we are told to love a building?

The Church is an entity also. The one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church. The Catholic Church under the Peter’s successors. You are speaking to a catholic, remember. We believe that there is an entity known as the Church, not just a group of people. Protestants took that out when they left because they wanted to discredit the Church.

So I went to chruch today and heard this statement at the sermon. “God teaches us to love, not religion, not the church, but the love of Christ”. I just want to know if this statement is true or not, and where in the bible did it come from. Thanks everyone

And what did Christ’s love do? It formed the Church and the religion. The Church being the Catholic Church, the religion being Catholic Christianity. That is the love of Christ. Christ, Himself established them for love of us. The Church is Christ’s holy bride. We are part of it. We should love the Church and our religion. It’s something totally different if you are ignorant of truth, but you should try as much to find the truth. The full deposit of faith can be found in the Catholic Church under the See of Peter in Rome.

It’s a very poor statement and I would even say it’s totally erroneous. Where did you hear it? It’s not from the Bible. It sounds like a protestant tract or a CNO fluff tract.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Actually it wasn’t a priest, the sermon was done by a Baptist pastor of a church that I attend with someone.

I’d wondered!

While Baptists certainly believe in “a church” they might look on it as being more that "invisible’ church of ‘all believers’.

But to a Catholic, knowing that Christ gave us ONE Church, and that He is the “Bridegroom’ and the Church the Bride, and knowing Christ’s own words about a bride and groom being ‘one flesh’, and knowing Christ’s own words about things like 'being One in Him”, and about the Church being the 'pillar and foundation of truth", a Catholic would not pit “Church” and “God” ‘against each other’ in the way that this pastor did. . .

To a Catholic, God’s love is seen in The Church, not ‘apart’ from it. We don’t separate the Church from God.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Actually it wasn’t a priest, the sermon was done by a Baptist pastor of a church that I attend with someone.

ditto!!!

a priest would not have said that. thank you for clarifying.

no wonder. they dont believe there is a Church, that is why he said that.

 

[Dokimas]

ditto!!!

a priest would not have said that. thank you for clarifying.

no wonder. they dont believe there is a Church, that is why he said that.

And you persist saying untruth. If I said a statement about the CC that was untrue, you may think you and your CC was being persecuted.

 

[Dokimas]

Do some protestants believe there is NO church started by Jesus or do they believe in an invisible church?

 

[Lancer]

First…if the priest or deacon really believes what he said…it begs the questions…why is he:-a priest;
-celebrating the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass;
-ministering the Sacraments (e.g., Holy Eucharist, Confession, etc.);
-a member of any organized religion…especially The Catholic Church;
Second…here are some quotes from the CCC…Christ is the Church & religion is virtuous and** irreligion is a vice**

1659 St. Paul said: "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the Church. . . . This is a great mystery, and I mean in reference to** Christ and the Church" (*Eph ***5:25, 32).

2096 Adoration is the first act of the virtue** of religion. To adore God is to acknowledge him as God, as the Creator and Savior, the Lord and Master of everything that exists, as infinite and merciful Love. “You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve,” says Jesus, citing Deuteronomy.

2110 The first commandment forbids honoring gods other than the one Lord who has revealed himself to his people. It proscribes *[denounces/condemns] *superstition and irreligion. Superstition in some sense represents a perverse excess of religion; irreligion is the vice contrary by defect to the virtue of religion.

Lastly…the priest or deacon sounds tired…and…worn out from “carrying the load”…and in great need of prayers for his ministry…and the Holy Spirit to give him His powerful sustaining graces…may God bless and sustain him…and help him to run the race to the very end!..and me too in my vocation of marriage!!

Pax Christi

 

[wisdomseeker]

Do some protestants believe there is NO church started by Jesus or do they believe in an invisible church?

Dok,

tell me when Jesus sent an invisible Church to teach all men all He commanded?

please tell me.

we believe in a visible Church built by Christ, you dont believe what i believe.
do you believe in the visible Church, the CC?

 

[Dokimas]

Dok,

tell me when Jesus sent an invisible Church to teach all men all He commanded?

please tell me.

we believe in a visible Church built by Christ, you dont believe what i believe.
do you believe in the visible Church, the CC?

Have you seen all the Christians around the world? Are there more Christians than you’ve ever seen? Are Christians bound by a building?​

Answer these questions and you may understand what the ‘invisible’ church is.​

I also think it means the church is bigger than any one church including the CC.

 

[aspirant]

So I went to chruch today and heard this statement at the sermon. “God teaches us to love, not religion, not the church, but the love of Christ”. I just want to know if this statement is true or not, and where in the bible did it come from. Thanks everyone

From a Catholic perspective, I think these are false dichotomies. Love is our religion. The Church is the Body of Christ.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Have you seen all the Christians around the world? Are there more Christians than you’ve ever seen? Are Christians bound by a building?​

Answer these questions and you may understand what the ‘invisible’ church is.​

I also think it means the church is bigger than any one church including the CC.

Dok,

Christians are not bounding by a building but they are bound by One Faith.

you can simply think that you can you can pick and choose what you want to believe and be part of the Church.

Please show me when this belief of invisible Church started.

the early Christians belong to the Church, the CC because they all believe the Teachings of the Church and were under authority just like today.