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Lisa4Catholics
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We are not the ones that took seven books out of the Bible
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Steven_Merten
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Hello gladtobe,
We are hashing out Pope John Paul II wensday after noon statement to Vatican pilgrims compared to Pope Eugene IV’s excathadra Bull Cantate Domino, 1441, at Catholic Forum. Care to stop over and place a post or two on the issue. catholic-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1099&page=1&pp=25
The following is a **quote of Pope John Paul II’s **statement in English to those gathered in St. Peter’s square on Wednesday, December 6th, 2000, in which he briefly summarized his message of the day, “FOR US, THE KINGDOM IS GRACE”:“Dear brothers and sisters, the theme of Our general audience during this great Jubilee year, has been the glory of the Trinity, and today we ask what we must do to ensure that the glory of the Trinity shines forth more fully in the world. In essence we are called to be converted and to believe in the Gospel. We are to accept the kingdom of God in our hearts, and to bear witness to it by word and deed. The kingdom indicates the loving presence and activity of God in the world and should be a source of serenity and confidence to our lives. The Gospel teaches us that those who live in accordance with the beatitudes: the poor in spirit; the pure in heart; those who will lovingly [endure] the sufferings of life; will enter God’s kingdom. All who seek God with a sincere heart, including those who do not know Christ and His Church, contribute under the influence of grace, to the building of this kingdom. In the Lord’s prayer we say ‘Thy kingdom come’. May this be the hope that sustains us and inspires our Christian life and world.”
We confess with the Apostle Paul “that there is salvation in no other name” (Acts 4:12). The “Dominus Iesus” declaration, in the wake of Vatican II, shows that with this the salvation of non-Christians is not denied, but explains its ultimate source in Christ, in whom God and man are united. God gives light to all in a way appropriate to their interior and environmental situation, granting them saving grace through ways known to him (see “Dominus Iesus,” VI, 20-21). The document clarifies the essential Christian elements, which do not obstruct the dialogue, but show its basis, because a dialogue without foundations would be destined to degenerate into empty verbosity.
Normally, “**it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God’s invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour **(cf. Ad gentes, nn. 3, 9, 11)” (Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue – Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples,
Pope Eugene IV,
(Bull Cantate Domino, 1441) "The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, also Jews, heretics, and schismatics can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire ‘which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her… No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."
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rtkiii66
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No your the ones who added the apochrapha. It is funny the old or new test never once makes reference to those books and yet they make reference to each other thousands of times. the problem started at the vulgate translation.We are not the ones that took seven books out of the Bible
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Ann_Cheryl
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What difference does it make if the rock is Jesus or Peter? That wasn’t the point you asked for scripture that Jesus started the Catholic Church.
Oh! Where do you get this from? It is not true.
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Lisa4Catholics
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Pope Eugene IV,
(Bull Cantate Domino, 1441) "The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, also Jews, heretics, and schismatics can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire ‘which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her… No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."__________________Steve this would implicate that God is unjust to people that have never had the opportunity to learn the Catholic faith
Do you not think that Jesus can reveal the truth even at the last breath:banghead: Stop slamming the late Pope too, it is just not right.
(Bull Cantate Domino, 1441) "The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, also Jews, heretics, and schismatics can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire ‘which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her… No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."__________________Steve this would implicate that God is unjust to people that have never had the opportunity to learn the Catholic faith
Do you not think that Jesus can reveal the truth even at the last breath:banghead: Stop slamming the late Pope too, it is just not right.
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Ann_Cheryl
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Isn’t revisionist history fun?
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Lisa4Catholics
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History lessons are needed
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rtkiii66
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Did you know peter means wavering rock.And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among usAnd Jesus said to Peter you are Rock and upon this Rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.:clapping:
You may want to visit the Vatican sometime Saint Peter is buried under the main alter
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
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rtkiii66
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what does that mean? correct me in my error if you can?History lessons are needed
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Ann_Cheryl
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It is not what Jesus said it meant. He didn’t say you are wavering rock.
I am surprised you don’t know or didn’t use the old tired Peter was the little rock.
You are not answering. You thow out unsubstantiated statements and are not backing them up. I think you need to study more before posting.
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rtkiii66
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Ann Cheryl:
Jesus did not start catholism the roman leadership did. It is a huge difference what the rock is, because if it is peter(and it is not) we are doomed. You do not realize you are being taught from a cannon, a specific set of scripture repeated over and over again year after year.
Please read the book of martyrs it will help.
See here is the problem, the word Catholic means “the true church”
Jesus did not start catholism the roman leadership did. It is a huge difference what the rock is, because if it is peter(and it is not) we are doomed. You do not realize you are being taught from a cannon, a specific set of scripture repeated over and over again year after year.
Please read the book of martyrs it will help.
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Luke-Jr
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Then why did Jesus change Simon’s name to Peter/rock? IIRC, the original text even uses the same word for Peter’s name as it does for the “rock” later in the same sentence.
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Genesis315
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Lisa4Catholics said:Pope Eugene IV,
(Bull Cantate Domino, 1441) "The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, also Jews, heretics, and schismatics can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire ‘which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her… No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."__________________Steve this would implicate that God is unjust to people that have never had the opportunity to learn the Catholic faith
This quote by Pope Eugene is in not contradictory to what the Church now teaches. The key phrase in this quotation is "unless before death they are joined with Her."
All who are saved have been joined with the Church. As we know, those who do not profess the Catholic faith through no fault of their own may be saved. These kind of people who are saved are united to the Church in an invisible way.
On the flip side, I’m sure there are many nominal Catholics who are not united to the Church.
Being united to the Church is not based on whether your name is on a parish registry.
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Lisa4Catholics
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Thanks Genesis for pointing that out I have been frayed today with insults of our late Pope and using other Pope and scriptures to do it.I should have read more carefully.
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Ann_Cheryl
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greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/#timeline
This site willl give you a history of the bible not a Catholic view but they do admit that books were removed from the bible
This site willl give you a history of the bible not a Catholic view but they do admit that books were removed from the bible
I will repeat you need to do a whole lot more studying. Look the word up in a dictionary and no where will you see that it means the true church. It means universal.
I know my Church quite well. Do you think I never pick up a bible. You are reading from a poorly informed book. You are speaking of the readings of mass which incidently covers the whole bible both old and new not just a specific set of scriptures. You are relying on someone else to tell you what is done. They are lying to you.
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Genesis315
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Well, the poster tried to use it to contrast JPII so reading with his agenda in mind it was easy to miss. Many post-VII documents are concerned with explanation while many of the pre-VII documents deal with condemnation of error so sometimes given the style of each type of writing they can seem like they don’t go together. If you wade through all the flowery language and get to the root, you’ll see they are always in line with one another.Thanks Genesis for pointing that out I have been frayed today with insults of our late Pope and using other Pope and scriptures to do it.I should have read more carefully.
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rtkiii66
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Ann Cheryl said:
I was a catholic for 30 years I am very aware of the false doctrine ttaught in the universal church. I have spent thousands of hours in the bible(many translations) I do not say these things lightly. I know we both love the Lord, but to say anyone who is not in agreement with the papal chuch is not saved is crazy. The papal chuch will have its day and purpose and I do not want any part of it.
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Steven_Merten
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Lisa4Catholics said:Pope Eugene IV,
(Bull Cantate Domino, 1441) "The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, also Jews, heretics, and schismatics can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire ‘which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her… No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."__________________Steve this would implicate that God is unjust to people that have never had the opportunity to learn the Catholic faith
Hello Lisa,
Actually I like the idea of Pope John Paul II changing this out dated “exchathadra” (unchangeable) Church teaching. Not to slam the late Pope Eugene IV of course. If Popes can bind, they can loost. What I do not like is people telling me that Pope John Paul II is not changing Pope Eugene IV’s “excathadra” (unchangeable), some say “infallible” Church doctrine. Even a simple mind can see that he has.
However, first I think that Pope John Paul II could have first taken out a few of the Church “Keys to the Kingdom”, calling upon Christ to “hold sins bound” automatic anathamas designed to damn heretic Catholic souls. Because he did not do this first, this new teaching of Pope John Paul II, allowing pagans and Protestants into the bosom of the Church, puts Catholics at a disadvantage of attaining eternal life. If it is true that Catholics have to abide by all anathema bound Catholic encyclicals or have anathema damn their souls, kick them out of the bosom of the Church, and Protestants and pagans do not, this is not fair. Is it fair to have Catholics bound by Church soul damning anathemas while the Church allows Protestants and pagans to bypass these anathamas and simply “sincerely believe” what their leaders tell them?
Pope John Paul II has created an unequal playing field between Protestants and Catholics with Protestants having the advantage. Maybe by not warning Catholics of sould damning Church anathemas, while leaving auto anathemas activated, Pope John Paul II is counting on ignorance to get Catholics past them. I do not know if ignorance gets you past an automatic anathema. Still it would be more fair to simply unbind auto anathamas from the many Catholic Church encyclicals they are bound to.
We are discussing this at catholic-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11605#post11605
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Steven_Merten
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Hello Genesis,
So what did the "No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ can be saved" guy not do, that pagans and Protestants do, to enter into the bosom of the Catholic Church “before death”?
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Ann_Cheryl
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I am glad you brought this back to the thread.
I believe that those not in union with the Church that Jesus established which is the Catholic Church can be saved but it is more difficult for them to be since they reject the graces Jesus established to help them.
rtkiii66
You have very little knowledge of the Church. What were you doing those thirty years. How can you reject the Eucharist? You have made so many silly mistakes like the meaning of Catholic or that the Catholic Church added books to the bible, just plain ignorance. Did you look at the link I provided?
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