Do you believe non-catholics are saved?

[Swiss_Guard]

jsussvsus:

Hi All
I believe that ONLY Bible believing Christians are saved. I fear for the souls of my Catholic believing Family and Friends. I hope not to offend anybody but this is my belief.
Thanks.

My beliefs also include not believing what is contrary to the Bible.

---

15: Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16: But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17: And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. 18: Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Matthew 18:15-18)

---

14: These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: 15: But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. (1 Timothy 3:14-15)

---

14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15: If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16: And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19: Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20: But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22: Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23: And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25: Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26: For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:14-26)
etext.lib.virginia.edu/kjv.browse.html

I believe the Church Jesus Christ founded is the pillar of truth and has the power of binding and loosing just as Jesus taught. I also believe faith without works is dead.

---

These passages prove sola scriptura and sola fide are contrary to the Bible, yet Bible believing Christians hold fast to both of these man-made traditions.

When examining what the Bible says, it’s clear the Bible believing Christians are the ones who belong to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by our Lord Jesus Christ on the rock of Peter whose visible head is Pope Benedict XVI. All other Christians don’t believe everything the Bible says.

 

[Shoshana]

jsussvsus:

Hi All
I believe that ONLY Bible believing Christians are saved. I fear for the souls of my Catholic believing Family and Friends. I hope not to offend anybody but this is my belief.
Thanks.

He speaketh like my fundamentalist brother…

Actually, our resident priest will be charging royalty fees on these bibles since they originated from the Catholic Church…

 

[wcknight]

Shoshana:

He speaketh like my fundamentalist brother…

Actually, our resident priest will be charging royalty fees on these bibles since they originated from the Catholic Church…

AND this Bible toting fundalmentalist forgets that Catholics all happen to be Bible believing Christian too. We just don’t interpret things as he does.

 

[wcknight]

For those who have problems with what Pope Eugene said and what Pope John Paul says. It is interesting to note a story from one of the saints (If forget which one). She was asked by a someone if one of her friends (or relatives) was going to be saved or damned because they had died falling off a horse and was in serious sin without confession.

The saint told them that the person in question between the time he fell and the time he struck his head, had repented of his sins.

No one knows if in the instant before death, non-Catholics may be given the grace to become in full union with the Catholic Church.

IF given the choice in the instant before death, become Catholic or go to eternal damnation, I would think most folks would choose to join. Maybe for some, who hate the Church so much that they would rather roast forever than join the Church that they think its the anti-Christ, well that’s their own fault then. :crying:

 

[jsussvsus]

You claim only Bible believing Christians are saved. My question is who is a Bible believing Christian? What makes someone a Bible believing Christian? Does believing what the Bible says make one a Bible believing Christian?

What does the Bible say? Here are some things the Bible says that I believe, all from the King James version of the Bible

When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14: And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15: He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16: And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17: And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18: And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19: And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven

He that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me. Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22: And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15: Thereforebrethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, or our epistle. Thessalonians 2:13-15)

I believe that Jesus founded His Church on the rock of Peter and that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. I believe Jesus gave Peter the keys of the kingdom with the power to bind and loose on earth. I believe the apostles share in the mission of binding and loosing, as long as they are united to Peter, the rock on which Christ has built His Church

I also believe whoever hears the apostles, hears Jesus. I believe Jesus gave the apostles the power to forgive sins. I believe that we are to believe all the apostles taught, whether by word or letterI believe everything the Bible says, including the above passages. Do you believe everything the Bible says?

Hi All
I am not ignorant nor do I hate you. If I hated Catholic’s I would not have said that I FEAR for the souls of my Catholic friends and family. I believe that the Catholic church misinterprits the scriptures in many areas. I don’t believe that Christ said that on Peter he would build his church, I believe that upon Peters confession that, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, that Christ built his church. Scripture says many times that Christ is the chief corner stone. I mean do you think Christ would give that kind of authority to someone who would deny him three times. I believe that the Catholic church gives way to much authority to it’s leaders. I don’t believe that Christ gave the apostles the ability to forgive sins as Catholics believe in John 20:23. Christ also tells us to forgive each other in Eph 4:32, does this mean that we have the ability to forgive sins as Christ forgives
us our sins, NO. Our ability to forgive sins only mean as to not hold it against someone when they have wronged us, only Christ has the authority to remove a sin stain from us because he died for those sins. I do believe what the Scriptures say and not what Man says. The Catholic church says that You nor I have the authority interprit the Bible, we are to believe what they tell us to believe. Phil 2:12 tells us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. I will not put my trust in sinful man, but rather in the hands of our Lord Jesus Christ. Once again this is just my opinion and I hope not to offend anyone. Just telling you how I feel.
Thanks.

 

[jsussvsus]

Shoshana:

He speaketh like my fundamentalist brother…

Actually, our resident priest will be charging royalty fees on these bibles since they originated from the Catholic Church…

Hi All
I’m sorry, I thought that the Bible was the word of God. I did not know it was the word of the Catholic church. My Bad.
Thanks.

 

[Shoshana]

wcknight:

AND this Bible toting fundalmentalist forgets that Catholics all happen to be Bible believing Christian too.

Not according to my fundamentalist brother…:crying:

My brother and I will never see eye to eye…after 23 years, the picture looks grim. He believes that going from one church to another is only a matter of pride and that it is basically only a building. So where’s problem…because he believes in Jeeeeeesuuuuuus Christ! and Him alone! Even in conversing with him, he will never let me put in my word, as we Catholics perceive things…he has to have the last word always…

There has been much damage and he is rebelling and being deceived all in one…two for the price of one!

Blessings,
Shoshana

 

[RyanL]

jsussvsus:

I am not ignorant nor do I hate you. If I hated Catholic’s I would not have said that I FEAR for the souls of my Catholic friends and family.

Hi, jsussvsus! Welcome to the forum, and stay as long as you would like! I heartily appreciate your concern for my soul, and I have the same concern for yours. May our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ have mercy on the both of us.

jsussvsus:

…I don’t believe that Christ said that on Peter he would build his church, I believe that upon Peters confession… I mean do you think Christ would give that kind of authority to someone who would deny him three times.

I don’t agree with your interpretation, but let’s hold off on that for now. For now, let’s grant you the point that ‘rock’ refers only to Peter’s confession of faith. What about the keys? Could you cite Isaiah 22:22 for us, and explain how this should be separated from Matt 16:18? Did Jesus not know about Isaiah 22:22, where a specific office is delegated within a Davidic kingdom, or was this parallel with a seemingly similar office within Christ’s Davidic kingdom completely un-intentional?

jsussvsus:

…I don’t believe that Christ gave the apostles the ability to forgive sins as Catholics believe in John 20:23. … Our ability to forgive sins only mean as to not hold it against someone when they have wronged us, only Christ has the authority to remove a sin stain from us because he died for those sins.

Would I be correct in paraphrasing you as saying, “Who can forgive sins but God alone?” You may want to look into who you’re quoting…Mark 2:7. Keep reading, however, and you will see an interesting statement in the parallel text in Matthew 9:8: “Now when the multitudes saw it, they marveled and glorified God, who had given such power to men” Huh. A plural. Right there in God’s word. What should we make of that?

jsussvsus:

I do believe what the Scriptures say and not what Man says.

False dichotomy. What if Man “says” the Scripture? The two are not diameterically opposed.

jsussvsus:

The Catholic church says that You nor I have the authority interprit the Bible, we are to believe what they tell us to believe. … I will not put my trust in sinful man, but rather in the hands of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We also put our trust in Jesus Christ (again, false dichotomy), but you err in your ideas about Church teachings. The Church says that neither you nor I are able to interpret the Bible to the exclusion of what the Church teaches. I am encouraged by the Church to read my bible and interpret it. You have this part wrong. To clarify: I am simply not allowed to say, “I know better than the people who learned from the Apostles.” Seems like a fairly simple thing, if you ask me. Also seems pretty smart. If I could show you what the Apostles taught their students, would you listen?
May the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you always,
RyanL

 

[wcknight]

jsussvsus:

You claim only Bible believing Christians are saved. My question is who is a Bible believing Christian? What makes someone a Bible believing Christian? Does believing what the Bible says make one a Bible believing Christian?
… Do you believe everything the Bible says?

.

It’s YOU who thinks only Bible believing Christians are saved.

Jesus DID in fact give the Apostle AND their successors, the power to forgive sins. He said, whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them and whose sins you shall retain they are retained.

He was speaking directly to His disciples, and to their successors.

We believe you and a whole bunch of other folks who make up your own interpretations as you go along are mistaken and in error. The Church has a virtual army of biblical scholars and researchers, and we come out with ONE interpretation of scriptures as backed by historical evidence and traditions passed on from generations up to the time of the apostles.

You have yourself and a faulty verison of scriptures with some key books purposely left out. I know our interpretation has got to be more accurate and more complete. The very idea that your text comes from a reactionary period of history and was purposely altered to satisfy a few malcontents makes it invalid in part and in its entirety.

Just think ,your version of scriptures came from a renegade cleric who went mad and was ostracized from the Church, and along with a church that was formed because some king wanted a divorce and couldn’t get it. You’ve got to be pretty skeptical about your source material.

Citing the KJ verision of the bible is like referencing the cliff notes for Shakespeare, It just doesn’t cut mustard.

Please find a COMPLETE bible without some of the pages removed. Then we can talk.:whacky:

 

[Swiss_Guard]

wcknight:

It’s YOU who thinks only Bible believing Christians are saved.

Jesus DID in fact give the Apostle AND their successors, the power to forgive sins. He said, whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them and whose sins you shall retain they are retained.

He was speaking directly to His disciples, and to their successors.

We believe you and a whole bunch of other folks who make up your own interpretations as you go along are mistaken and in error. The Church has a virtual army of biblical scholars and researchers, and we come out with ONE interpretation of scriptures as backed by historical evidence and traditions passed on from generations up to the time of the apostles.

You have yourself and a faulty verison of scriptures with some key books purposely left out. I know our interpretation has got to be more accurate and more complete. The very idea that your text comes from a reactionary period of history and was purposely altered to satisfy a few malcontents makes it invalid in part and in its entirety.

Just think ,your version of scriptures came from a renegade cleric who went mad and was ostracized from the Church, and along with a church that was formed because some king wanted a divorce and couldn’t get it. You’ve got to be pretty skeptical about your source material.

Citing the KJ verision of the bible is like referencing the cliff notes for Shakespeare, It just doesn’t cut mustard.

Please find a COMPLETE bible without some of the pages removed. Then we can talk.:whacky:

He’s quoting my post #60 wcknight. This quote is mine, not jsussvsus. I was doing this to show him that it’s Catholics who are the true Bible Christians, as we believe everything the Bible teaches. I used the King James version to show him these passages are not a Catholic invention. His own Bible shows him that he doesn’t believe everything the Bible teaches.

---

If jsussvsus believes only Bible Christians are saved, then he believes only Catholics are in heaven.

---

It’s amazing how Bible Christians don’t know how to respond to the passages I posted in posts #60 and #61 because they are never taught them by their pastors. They only learn part of the Bible, not the Bible in its entirety. The Catholic Church is the only church which teaches the Bible whole, complete and without error.

 

[jimmy]

ceasar:

do you believe that a person that is not of the catholic religion can be saved??? especially if he does not want to participate in your denomination. but, rather chooses to follow the bible instead on his own accord…

Ceasar

If someone is openly rejecting the truth, they will not be saved. If they know that the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Christ, yet they persist outside of it of their own free will, they will go to hell. Since Christ is truth, when we reject one article of the truth we also reject him.

 

[Wildgraywolf]

rtkiii66:

Point out in scripture where Jesus started the catholic church.

The bible is a product of the revelation of God to Man which came through hundreds of scribes and prophets and paints a perfect picture of Gods will for man.

The point of the bible quotes are in the beginning Christ was the Word.

Actually, God created only one religion Judaism. Catholicism is Judaism fully revealed by Christ.

In keeping with the thread: Not all Christians will go to heaven and not all non-Christians will go to hell.

 

[wcknight]

He’s quoting my post #60 wcknight. This quote is mine, not jsussvsus. I was doing this to show him that it’s Catholics who are the true Bible Christians, as we believe everything the Bible teaches. I used the King James version to show him these passages are not a Catholic invention. His own Bible shows him that he doesn’t believe everything the Bible teaches.

If jsussvsus believes only Bible Christians are saved, then he believes only Catholics are in heaven.

It’s amazing how Bible Christians don’t know how to respond to the passages I posted in posts #60 and #61 because they are never taught them by their pastors. They only learn part of the Bible, not the Bible in its entirety. The Catholic Church is the only church which teaches the Bible whole, complete and without error.

:tiphat: Sorry to step on your posts, open mouth stick foot in…

Yes, I find it amazing how a lot of stuff they take quite literally and really important things (like the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist) they take as a figure of speech.

It’s quite obvious since some disciples actually left because of this statement that Jesus meant exactly what He said, and was not talking figuratively.

And of course the proof is in the Eucharistic miracles that have occurred several times, where host or wine have actually been transformed into human blood or flesh.

I suppose the things that bother me most is the amount of intollerance and distortion. I can take the disagreements or different interpretation, but when they want to insist that they know what we believe from some rumor or some made up detail then I just want to gag.

Argue with what I believe or say, not with what you think I believe or some inane myth that comes out of left field…:banghead:

 

[Swiss_Guard]

jsussvsus:

Hi All
I am not ignorant nor do I hate you.

I didn’t say you hate Catholics, I just said you’re ignorant. You are ignorant of what the Catholic Church teaches. Your posts prove your ignorance of Church teaching. It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.

jsussvsus:

If I hated Catholic’s I would not have said that I FEAR for the souls of my Catholic friends and family. I believe that the Catholic church misinterprits the scriptures in many areas. I don’t believe that Christ said that on Peter he would build his church, I believe that upon Peters confession that, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, that Christ built his church. Scripture says many times that Christ is the chief corner stone. I mean do you think Christ would give that kind of authority to someone who would deny him three times.

Do you think Christ would choose an Apostle He knew would betray Him? Christ did just that.

Scripture indeed says Christ is the rock, which is why Christ can make Peter the rock. If Christ wasn’t the rock, he couldn’t make Peter the rock. You believe the tired old either/or dichotomy, which is a tradition of men.

jsussvsus:

I believe that the Catholic church gives way to much authority to it’s leaders.

Then you believe Christ gave too much authority to the leaders of the Catholic Church because all Church authority comes from Christ.

---

**15: Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16: But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17: And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. 18: Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Matthew 18:15-18)

---

18: And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:18-20)

---

Scripture proves that it is Jesus who gives this authority to His Church.

Continued in next post…

 

[Swiss_Guard]

jsussvsus:

I don’t believe that Christ gave the apostles the ability to forgive sins as Catholics believe in John 20:23. Christ also tells us to forgive each other in Eph 4:32, does this mean that we have the ability to forgive sins as Christ forgives
us our sins, NO. Our ability to forgive sins only mean as to not hold it against someone when they have wronged us, only Christ has the authority to remove a sin stain from us because he died for those sins.

Paul tells us to forgive one another in Ephesians 4:32, not Christ. Let’s take a closer look at what Paul is speaking about in Ephesians:

---

24: And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25: Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. 26: Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27: Neither give place to the devil. 28: Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. 29: Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30: And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31: Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you. (Ephesians 4:24-32)

---

---

Now let’s compare this to what Christ said to the Apostles:

---

21: Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22: And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. (John 20:21-23)

---

Paul is instructing the church at Ephesus proper Christian conduct. Christ is giving the Apostles power, as He tells them not only can they forgive sins, but they can also not forgive sins. Nowhere does Paul tell the Ephesians they have power to forgive or not forgive sins. Christ, as you stated, has power to forgive sins and gives this power to the Apostles. I hope you don’t believe that Christ can’t give the power to forgive sins to whomever he chooses.

jsussvsus:

I do believe what the Scriptures say and not what Man says. The Catholic church says that You nor I have the authority interprit the Bible, we are to believe what they tell us to believe. Phil 2:12 tells us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. I will not put my trust in sinful man, but rather in the hands of our Lord Jesus Christ. Once again this is just my opinion and I hope not to offend anyone. Just telling you how I feel.

Thanks.

**If you believe in sola scriptura or sola fide, then you are putting your trust in sinful man rather than Christ. You cannot find anyone prior to the Protestant revolution who taught either one of these false doctrines. These doctrines are traditions of men.

---

The Catholic Church says you and I cannot infallibly interpret Sacred Scripture. Sacred Scripture is part of Sacred Tradition and Jesus Christ made His Church, the Catholic Church, the guardian of Sacred Tradition. When you put your trust in the Catholic Church, you put your trust in Jesus Christ. When you put your trust in sola scriptura, sola fide or any other man-made doctrine, you put your trust in sinful man.

---

I hope you are not offended, as you have not offended me in the least. Please don’t think everytime someone disagrees with Church teaching Catholics are offended. However, if you say this to avoid being suspended, I understand.

---

Pax tecum.

 

[ceasar]

Steven Merten:

Hello Ceasar,

While it is true that all you have to do is believe in Jesus to be saved, I believe that you are not putting a biblical definition to Christ’s word believe. By studying the bible one finds out that to “believe”, as the bible uses the term, means to do as Christ teaches you to do. Christ commands us to obey God’s commandment and feed the poor if we wish to go to heaven (Mark 10:17)(MAT 25:31). Many Protestants make up their own definition to the biblical word “believe” which does not include Jesus teachings to obey the commandments and feed the poor to go to heaven. If you do what Jesus tells you to do, or in other words “believe”, then yes you will be saved.

Please visit Believe which studies the bibles hundreds of uses of
the term.

NAB JOH 3:36

Whoever believes in the Son has life eternal. Whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God.NAB LUK 8:13

Those on the rocky ground are the ones who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. They have no root; **they believe **for a while, but fall away in time of temptation. NIV PSA 78:32

In spite of all this, they kept on sinning; in spite of his wonders, they did not believe

NAB MAR 1:15

Reform your lives and believe in the gospel!

NAB LUK 9:35

Then from the cloud came a voice which said, “This is my Son, my Chosen One. Listen to him.”​

NAB JOH 12:44

Jesus proclaimed aloud: “Whoever puts faith in me believes not so much in me as in him who sent me; and whoever looks on me is seeing him who sent me. I have come to the world as its light, to keep anyone who **believes **in me from remaining in the dark. If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I am not the one to condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it. Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words already has his judge, namely, the word I have spoken it is that which will condemn him on the last day. For I have not spoken on my own; no, the Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to speak. Since I know that his commandment means eternal life, whatever I say is spoken just as he instructed me.” NAB JOH 8:31

"If you live according to my teaching, you are truly my disciples; then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."NAB JAM 2:14

My brothers, what good is it to profess faith without practicing it? Such faith has no power to save one, has it? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and no food for the day, and you say to them, “Good-bye and good luck! Keep warm and well fed,” but do not meet their bodily needs, what good is that? so it is with the faith that does nothing in practice. It is thoroughly lifeless.

To such a person one might say, You have faith and I have works is that it? Show me your faith without works, and I will show you the faith that underlies my works! Do you believe that God is one? you are quite right. The demons believe that, and shudder.

NAB MAT 7:21

"None of those who cry out, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of God but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

NAB LUK 6:43

Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord’ and not put into practice what I teach you?" NAB 1JO 2:3

The way we can be sure of our knowledge of him is to keep his commandments, The man who claims, “I have known him,” without keeping his commandments, is a liar, in such a one there is no truth.

well…obviously if you don’t become a follower then your not a believer…

Ceasar

 

[JKirkLVNV]

jsussvsus:

Hi All
I’m sorry, I thought that the Bible was the word of God. I did not know it was the word of the Catholic church. My Bad.
Thanks.

It is the Word of God. It was, however, identified as such by the Church, in the persons of Her bishops in council, ratified by the Successors to Saint Peter, the Bishops of Rome, ie, the Popes.

You’re premises are faulty, though understandable. It’s the same mistake made by most Protestants of a more fundamentalist bent (I was raised Southern Baptist). The mistake is this: they’ve failed to read history. They’ve no idea where the Bible came from. Anyone who has read history must come to the conclusion that the Bible rises out of the Church. The Church does not rise out of the Bible. Thus, and this is confirmed in Its Own pages, the Bible means what the Church says that it means. Christ stated His Intention to found His Church on Peter. He gave to Peter (and latter to the other Apostles) the power of binding and loosing, ie, “this is acceptable, this isn’t, this is orthodox, this isn’t,” etc. The Church was then born on Pentecost, after Our Lord and Savior ascended back to the Right Hand of the Father. The Church obviously preceeds the Bible because the Apostles and their disciples/successors preceed the Bible. More able apologists than I can give you exact dates, but I don’t think the canon of Scripture was established until 300-400 years after the Acsencion. Jesus did not hand over to the Apostles a copy of the Old and New Testaments, gilt edged and bound in leather. The Bible became the Bible because the Church said,“This is the Word of God, this isn’t the Word of God (the Gnostic writings).” Any other understanding is fallacious and rather fantastic, on the par with Moslems believing that the Angel Gabriel dictated the Koran word for word to Mohammed or Mormons believed that Joseph Smith translated the golden plates of the Book of Mormon using a pair of magic specs. Finally, Catholics DO believe the Bible, so using your rather narrow and naive interpretation of who’s getting into Heaven and who isn’t, Catholics are in like Flynn, no worries! Fortunately, the Bible itself goes into rather more detailed explications as to what is needed for eternal salvation.

 

[Ignatius]

ceasar:

well what if the person takes romans 10:9 and follows that and believes…all you have to do is confess with your mouth and believe with your heart and your saved…like in acts 16 when the jailer asks how might i be saved…they replied you must believe…jesus countless times said you must “believe” well…it is my undestanding that all you have to do is be a believer and your saved…

If you do as Christ commands, then you truely “believe”. If you want to follow the bible you also have to take James 2:20, 24 you have “But wilt thou know, o vain man, that faith without works is dead? Ye see then how that by works man is justified, and not by faith alone”.
You can’t just ignore the scriptures you don’t like.

Peace be with you.

 

[space_ghost]

…not participating in your denomination and rejecting Christ is altogether a different deal… don’t you think?

 

[Wildgraywolf]

ceasar:

do you believe that a person that is not of the catholic religion can be saved??? especially if he does not want to participate in your denomination.

Yep, we believe that non-Catholics can be saved. Just curious - why do you not want to participate in Catholicism?

ceasar:

but, rather chooses to follow the bible instead on his own accord…

Here’s something for you to consider… Before there was a bible there was the “spoken bible” or what we call Sacred Tradition. The bible comes along nearly 400 years after the fact of Christianity. Why settle for the text book when you can have it and it’s teachers teachers as well? Does it make sense to be satisfied with the bare minimum of truth or the completeness of truth?