Do you believe non-catholics are saved?

[patrickJ]

wcknight:

For those who have problems with what Pope Eugene said and what Pope John Paul says. It is interesting to note a story from one of the saints (If forget which one). She was asked by a someone if one of her friends (or relatives) was going to be saved or damned because they had died falling off a horse and was in serious sin without confession.

The saint told them that the person in question between the time he fell and the time he struck his head, had repented of his sins.

No one knows if in the instant before death, non-Catholics may be given the grace to become in full union with the Catholic Church.

IF given the choice in the instant before death, become Catholic or go to eternal damnation, I would think most folks would choose to join. Maybe for some, who hate the Church so much that they would rather roast forever than join the Church that they think its the anti-Christ, well that’s their own fault then. :crying:

Hi, you have said this the best. There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. A infallible statement cannot be contradicted. Once it has been pronounced, it is what it is. One pope cannot say something ex cathedra that is opposite of what another pope has declared, professed, and proclaimed. So, the answer to the possibility of someone who is not a practicing Catholic being saved is that, we do not know what happens right before death to these people. They might receive God’s mercy and have perfect contrition and embrace the Catholic Church and be saved. But, we do not know if this is in fact happening, we can hope and pray that it happens alot. What is important for all of us Catholics to remember is that we must inform the fallen away Catholics and the protestants that they are in serious trouble if they do not become active participants in Jesus’ One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and partake in the sacraments.

Peace Out

 

[joehar]

Luke-Jr:

Technically, “Christians” encompass more than just Catholics only when “Christian” is defined significantly vague.

Catholicism is not a man-made religion. Jesus started the Catholic Church.

Not sure what the point of those quotes are… don’t forget, though, that the Bible is also a product of the Catholic Church.

YOU GUYS ARE SO CLOSE TO BEING LIKE THE PHARISEES IN THE BIBLE. WOW

 

[patrickJ]

wcknight:

For those who have problems with what Pope Eugene said and what Pope John Paul says. It is interesting to note a story from one of the saints (If forget which one). She was asked by a someone if one of her friends (or relatives) was going to be saved or damned because they had died falling off a horse and was in serious sin without confession.

The saint told them that the person in question between the time he fell and the time he struck his head, had repented of his sins.

No one knows if in the instant before death, non-Catholics may be given the grace to become in full union with the Catholic Church.

IF given the choice in the instant before death, become Catholic or go to eternal damnation, I would think most folks would choose to join. Maybe for some, who hate the Church so much that they would rather roast forever than join the Church that they think its the anti-Christ, well that’s their own fault then. :crying:

Hi, you have said this the best. There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. A infallible statement cannot be contradicted. Once it has been pronounced, it is what it is. One pope cannot say something ex cathedra that is opposite of what another pope has declared, professed, and proclaimed. So, the answer to the possibility of someone who is not a practicing Catholic being saved is that, we do not know what happens right before death to these people. They might receive God’s mercy and have perfect contrition and embrace the Catholic Church and be saved. But, we do not know if this is in fact happening, we can hope and pray that it happens alot. What is important for all of us Catholics to remember is that we must inform the fallen away Catholics and the protestants that they are in serious trouble if they do not become active participants in Jesus’ One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and partake in the sacraments.

Peace Out

 

[Dan_Goebel]

**15: Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16: But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17: And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. 18: Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Matthew 18:15-18)

I’d like to add to the above too. If there is no ONE authority/Church to go to, then how could any dispute be settled? 17: And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church:*** but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican***

Meaning: if someone tresspasses against you and does not listen to you or the 2 or 3 witnesses, then who shall they go to for authority?? If not the Catholic Church, then who? Every other church out there has it’s own interpertation and beliefs. And also note it says go to the church, not churches. I don’t think Christ intedned for 30,000+ churches/denominations. If one (outside of the Catholic Church) believes they are also the same church and has the same authority, it is like saying God the Father and the Son can disagree on something. This is obviously impossible.

Also note John 17:21 = “that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.”

Let us pray for those who do not know the Truth…that they may have a passion to seek It, not seek what they want to believe.

 

[Ric]

ceasar:

do you believe that a person that is not of the catholic religion can be saved??? especially if he does not want to participate in your denomination. but, rather chooses to follow the bible instead on his own accord…

Ceasar

Actually the ones whom are saved are the ones who have received Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior alone!

One can learn about salvation from reading the Bible, but following the Bible will save you just as good as doing good works for your salvation - no dice! It’s following Jesus alone that will save you.

 

[Genesis315]

Ric:

Actually the ones whom are saved are the ones who have received Jesus Christ as their personal Lord

and Savior alone!
Where is this in the Bible, specifically the phrase "receiving Jesus as personal Lord and Savior?

It’s following Jesus alone that will save you.

I totally agree here (accept for people invincibly ignorant of Christ who follow what graces they are given as well as follow the law written on all our hearts). But what is the right way to follow Jesus? For example, He says to eat His flesh, but most non-Catholics do not do this.

 

[BibleReader]

ceasar:

do you believe that a person that is not of the catholic religion can be saved??? especially if he does not want to participate in your denomination. but, rather chooses to follow the bible instead on his own accord…

Ceasar

Christ goes both ways on this.

**Yes: **In the Parable of the Good Samaritan. There, in that parable, Christ seems to have made the Good Samaritan, *as opposed to *the priest and the Levite, the “moral hero” of the story precisely because while the priest and Levite are ostensible believers the Good Samaritan is an overt non-believer. There really and truly is no doubt that the “saved” person in that story is the Samaritan, agreed? See Luke 10:30 et seq.

**No: **At the end of the Parable of the Wedding Feast, Matthew 22:1-14, Jesus inserts a rather frightening little blurb in which a guest who is “not properly dressed” is “bound hand and foot” and thrown out “into the night” where he “wails” and “grinds his teeth.” See Matthew 22:11-14. In the Bible, the Clothing Type = “religious beliefs.” See Genesis 3:7, where mankind dons fig leaf clothing – Judaism – as mankind’s response to mankind’s immorality; see Genesis 3:21, where God replaces the “Jewish clothing” with leather garments – sacrificial victim religious beliefs, Christianity – as mankind’s belief system.

The “bottom line” of this frightening little blurb at the end of the wedding feast parable seems to be, “You’d better have the correct beliefs! Or, you’re in BIG trouble!”

I resolve the two by the Church’s “invincible ignorance” doctrine. You have the responsibility to believe only if God has shown you enough to believe, given your personal circumstances, like the improperly dressed guest. After that, God checks to see if you did well with the grace that He did give you, like the Good Samaritan.

So, the answer, like everything else, is complex.

 

[puzzleannie]

I believe what the Catholic Church teaches about salvation, teaching she received from Jesus herself, and teaching which she protects and defends through the protection of the Holy Spirit. If you would like a thorough explanation of that teaching, please consult the articles and tracts on the CA homepage. For all new uses, and we welcome you as such, this reminder that most of the basic apologetics questions are answered there, and you would do very well to check out the homepage before entering into a discussion here.

ceasar:

do you believe that a person that is not of the catholic religion can be saved??? especially if he does not want to participate in your denomination. but, rather chooses to follow the bible instead on his own accord…

Ceasar

 

[davy39]

I know quite a few good non-catholics, and I have no doubt in my mind that they will be in heaven someday. But my thoughts are not God’s thoughts. We shouldn’t assume anybody is “saved”. Especially ourselves. I have had people ask me if I am saved, and I tell them, "I sure hope and pray that I am, but that’s Gods call. I’ll go on trying.

 

[Ric]

Genesis315:

Ric:

Actually the ones whom are saved are the ones who have received Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior alone!

Where is this in the Bible, specifically the phrase "receiving Jesus as personal Lord and Savior?

Ric:

It’s following Jesus alone that will save you.

I totally agree here (accept for people invincibly ignorant of Christ who follow what graces they are given as well as follow the law written on all our hearts). But what is the right way to follow Jesus? For example, He says to eat His flesh, but most non-Catholics do not do this.

For your first question read Pslams 44:3, 7; Isaiah 43:11; 45:21; 60:16; Jeremiah 14:8; Hosea 13:4; Luke 1:47; 1 Timothy 1:1; 2:3; 4:10; Titus 1:3.

And your your second reply, do you truly understand what it means to “eat Jesus’ flesh” in the proper context that He stated it in? (Hint The Roman Catholic teaching is incorrect)

 

[Kristopher]

puzzleannie:

I believe what the Catholic Church teaches about salvation, teaching she received from Jesus herself, and teaching which she protects and defends through the protection of the Holy Spirit…

Dear puzzleannie:

I thought that I would share what The Catholic Church teaches about salvation outside The Catholic Church. It seems appropriate to do so.

Here is my reference: Kinkead, Thomas L. “An Explanation of the Blatimore Catechism of Christian Doctrine: For the Use of Sunday-School Teachers and Advanced Classes”. [Also known as Baltimore Catechism No. 4] ILL: Tan Books and Publishers, 1988. (page 115).

“*121 Q. Are all bound to belong to the Church? A. All are bound to belong to the Church, and he who knows the Church to be the true Church and remains out of it, cannot be saved.”

“…If one not a Catholic doubts whether the church to which he belongs is the true Church, he must settle his doubt, seek the true Church, and enter it; for if he continues to live in doubt, he becomes like the one who knows the true Church and is deterred by worldly considerations from entering it. [New paragraph] …one who, doubting, fears to examine the religion he professes lest he should discover its falsity and be convinced of the truth of the Catholic faith, cannot be saved. [New paragraph] …a non-Catholic who firmly believes that the church to which he belongs is the true Chruch, and who has never–even in the past–had the slightest doubt of that fact–what will become of him? [New paragraph] If he was validly baptized and never committed a mortal sin, he will be saved; because, believing himself a member of the true Church, he was doing all he could to serve God according to his knowledge and the dictates of his conscience…if…he committed a mortal sin, his salvation would be very much more difficult…how could his mortal sin be forgiven? Not in the Sacrament of Penance, for the Protestant does not go to confession; and if he does, his minister–not being a true priest–has no power to forgive sins…”

There are many going to Hell with respect to appearances.

Most sincerely,

Kristopher

 

[Genesis315]

Ric:

For your first question read Pslams 44:3, 7; Isaiah 43:11; 45:21; 60:16; Jeremiah 14:8; Hosea 13:4; Luke 1:47; 1 Timothy 1:1; 2:3; 4:10; Titus 1:3.

All of these call Jesus the Savior, which is not in dispute. None speak of receiving Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. In fact, Timothy 4:10 says, “because we hope in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, especially of the faithful.” One does not have to explicitly accept Jesus as personal Lord and Savior to be saved–in fact, just doing that won’t necessarily save you (all those who come to Him saying Lord, Lord…). Even those who through no fault of their own are ignorant of the Gospel can still be saved, and if they are saved, they are still saved by Christ. So as all the verses you provided pointed out, Christ is the only Savior, but there’s no mention that not explicitly receiving Him as “personal Lord and Savior” will automatically damn you.

And your your second reply, do you truly understand what it means to “eat Jesus’ flesh” in the proper context that He stated it in? (Hint The Roman Catholic teaching is incorrect)

And how do you personally know the correct way to follow Jesus? I would say the earliest Christians, the ones taught by the Apostles themselves, would have the best knowledge of this, and they disagree with you.