Do you believe religion relieves people of personal responsibility?

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PelagiathePenit

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I have heard this said three times by atheists or agnostics. I do not understand what that means actually. Do you agree or disagree? Please explain.
 
It can be argued religion leads to be more personally responsible. The Catholic idea of sin does not excuse human behavior.
 
PelagiathePenit said:
It can be argued religion leads to be more personally responsible. The Catholic idea of sin does not excuse human behavior.
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From my perspective, it actually kind of holds you more accountable in the long run.

For most things we consider sin, there is no lasting consequence on this earth (e.g., lying is not illegal, but it is wrong). The concept of karma in some religions reflects this, so does the concept of divine retribution (whether it is in this life, or eternally).

I suppose it does vary based on the religion and with our interactions with that religion.
 
Okay, I’ll bite. Play devil’s advocate, sort of. 😃
How many hospitals/soup kitchens/social service projects/charities/homeless shelters has Christian fundamentalism produced?
I got my lifeboat out of Hell, the Rapture is coming. What do I care? This world is passing away.
 
If anything it gives you more responsibility because with every action you are accountable to God.
 
It can lead to that, but not in every case. Undoubtedly, there are people who sin habitually for six days and spend the seventh day in prayer. When that’s over, they go back to doing the exact same sins they did before, without a shred of guilt, and the process continues. Anton LaVey wrote about this in his book, the Satanic Bible. He saw men in church on Sundays and they spent the rest of the week habitually sinning.

Religious hypocrisy is everywhere, so your atheist/agnostic friends are correct to some extent. It’s not true in every case, though. There are plenty of people who honestly feel shame when they sin and do their best not to repeat such action.
 
There’s the idea that the Christian idea of forgiveness for sins IN PRACTICE means that a person just does whatever they want to, and falls back on the idea that God will forgive them anyway. Hidden in this is the assumption that Christians are basically all hypocrites.

I think that’s a caricature. It’s kind of just a low-blow designed to neutralize a Christian’s moral witness. It can also be seen as a bit of a skewed understanding of once saved, always saved.

But on the other hand, it’s also a description of presumption, which is by no means the Christian ideal, but which some Christians do fall into.
 
drac16 said:
It can lead to that, but not in every case. Undoubtedly, there are people who sin habitually for six days and spend the seventh day in prayer. When that’s over, they go back to doing the exact same sins they did before, without a shred of guilt, and the process continues. Anton LaVey wrote about this in his book, the Satanic Bible. He saw men in church on Sundays and they spent the rest of the week habitually sinning.

Religious hypocrisy is everywhere, so your atheist/agnostic friends are correct to some extent. It’s not true in every case, though. There are plenty of people who honestly feel shame when they sin and do their best not to repeat such action.
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Fair. Since when have people been good with taking full responsibility for their choices. It is difficult to debate morals. Some people feel no guilt when they seek vengeance. In their moral code this is OK. Christians are supposed to embody the highest moral code constantly. We have more sins to feel guilty for. We do not develop our own set of rules. We adhere to the church’s. People outside the church can simply follow the law but they develop their own ideas of right and wrong. They hold themselves accountable but they can decided how strict or loose their morals are.
 
Some people say that Catholics feel like they could sin all week and still be good if they just go to confession. But, I have known quite a few priests who will question people who go to confession constantly for the same thing if they are really sorry. Those same priests tend to discourage weekly confession lest people start to get the idea that it is a get out of jail free card.
 
puzzledtoo said:
Not my fault. The devil made me do it. Sound familiar?
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Yes. How immature. I think temptation is real, religious or not. We ultimately make our own choices and follow our own convictions. It can be difficult assuming full responsibility for a very poor choice.
 
JustaServant said:
Okay, I’ll bite. Play devil’s advocate, sort of. 😃
How many hospitals/soup kitchens/social service projects/charities/homeless shelters has Christian fundamentalism produced?
I got my lifeboat out of Hell, the Rapture is coming. What do I care? This world is passing away.
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:confused:

Depends on what you mean by “Christian Fundamentalism” and which denominations you feel fall under that heading… Where I’m from it is mainly “fundamentalists” who run charitable organizations, and who evangelize. I don’t think that’s what the OP meant, but could be wrong.

I think faith enhances personal responsibility when it is true faith, as action flows from our beliefs and what we actually trust in. I do think our modern age has brought about a lot of “dead faith” in post-industrial countries.
 
PelagiathePenit said:
I have heard this said three times by atheists or agnostics. I do not understand what that means actually. Do you agree or disagree? Please explain.
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No it doesnt, but many people in the pew I do think believe that it does
 
There are people who have no likes for Christians. They then think or say that Christians are hypocrites because of their lives which are no different from the non-Christians who do not boast that they are righteous unlike Christians who believe that they should be.

Yes, this may be true in a strange way but it must be the exception for Christians.

Most Christians are struggling to follow the teaching of their faith, that is to be Godly and righteous. It does not mean that they are. Some are successful in being so to some extent, some are still immersed in their lives of sins but for either way, they still have to go to church to practice.

Sometimes come to think of it, it is rather flattering to think that non-Christians have this thought that in order for Christians not to be hypocrites they must be able to live out the teaching of their faith. Compounding to that, there are indeed Christians, the exceptions, who try to project an image that they are actually successfully living out the life of the Gospel. While the fact is, especially for Christians who are honest with their achievement, they can only say that they do not measure up to the glory of God and therefore are struggling sinners depending very much on God’s grace to help them to overcome sins.
 
No it does not at all.

Whether religious or not, from a moral standpoint, one is responsible for the life that person chooses to live, regardless of, generally speaking, being a good person or not.

My conviction is clear — Catholic, LDS, whatever or no religious interest at all.
 
PelagiathePenit said:
I have heard this said three times by atheists or agnostics. I do not understand what that means actually. Do you agree or disagree? Please explain.
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People tend to forget that sin is not in religion, quite contrary, sin is far from ‘religious’.

Participation in ‘Religion’ is what brings about a ‘personal responsibility’ awareness.

Consider - to seek forgiveness for ones sins - When forgiveness is sought, it can only be sought with an awareness of ‘personal responsibility’.

The statement you’ve been given, makes it seem as if someone is aware of wrongs and punts on responsibility because of their religious affiliation.

People punt on responsibility all the time, but how often consciously? How often consciously, specifically using religious affiliation as an excuse? We might find this around the pigs flying rate.

Someone being aware of their sinfulness, does not make the sins religious!

Nor does being in a religion (whether really in a religion, or just in thought) automatically make sinfulness abundantly clear.

Take care,

Mike
 
redbetta said:
But, I have known quite a few priests who will question people who go to confession constantly for the same thing if they are really sorry.
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Thank God that’s not normal, since that’s a wonderful way to chase people away from Confession altogether. The Church is very clear that habitual sin could actually diminish a person’s culpability, not make them so far gone they’re ineligible to go to Confession at all. Are these priests “traditionalists” by chance?

Having a penitent who is manifestly not repentant is one thing. The proper response should be to refrain from giving absolution, as all good priests will do. But interrogating penitents about their level of sorrow?

Of course most penitents are sorry. What the heck else would they go an embarrass themselves in front of a priest for? Kicks?

Oy vey.
 
Okay, I’ll bite. Play devil’s advocate, sort of.
How many hospitals/soup kitchens/social service projects/charities/homeless shelters has Christian fundamentalism produced?
I got my lifeboat out of Hell, the Rapture is coming. What do I care? This world is passing away.
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In my mind this is a very unfortunate post.

I am a member of a nondenominational church which some might characterize as “fundamentalist” - although they do not refer to themselves that way.

To answer your question, there is a food bank network run by so-called “fundamentalist” churches in my area, including my congregation. I think it is fair to say that our congregation is best known by nonmembers for this food bank, which feeds about 90 people per week. This is just our own congregation, and it is staffed completely by volunteers who are our members and the food is donated by members.

There are several other “fundamentalist” churches in this network. All food is free of charge. We do ask these folks if we can pray for them and tell them about Jesus Christ.

In addition, our congregation operates a house where recovering drug addicts can live while they get back on their feet.

While I recognize that Catholics do much good in the community as well, I think it is mean spirited for this poster to say something like the quoted comments.

Blessings,

Mike
 
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