Do you believe the Flood was a historical event?

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šŸ‘šŸ˜ƒ I have asked the same basic question (several times) and have not gotten an answer yet.:bounce:šŸ¤“:crutches:
There is several times the amount needed to flood locked in the rocks. In addition, a huge ocean has been found under China.

Enough water is no longer an issue.
 
There is several times the amount needed to flood locked in the rocks. In addition, a huge ocean has been found under China.

Enough water is no longer an issue.
Actually, all that water is still not enough. It’s not even remotely close. And they are not locked in rocks. They are part of the chemical composition of those rocks. Huge difference. At least try and be accurate. You’re clearly not even trying.
 
Actually, all that water is still not enough. It’s not even remotely close. And they are not locked in rocks. They are part of the chemical composition of those rocks. Huge difference. At least try and be accurate. You’re clearly not even trying.
Do you think the Bible is a science book?

Peace,
Ed
 
Scientists are not God, throughfore they are not infallable. Also, not all mainline scienists believe that an astroid killed off the dinosaurs; some, like Dr. Robert Bakker, think the dinosaurs were either arlready gone or on the way to extintiona when the astreoid hit the earth. Oh, by the way, Dr. Bakker can also be called Rev. Bakker (he is an ordained minaster).🤷:whistle::tiphat:

One thing, the Bible is not a science book. The Bible tells how to go to Heaven, not how the heavens go. God gave us humans brains for that. šŸ‘šŸ˜ƒ
I have posted about similar issues (science, scientists) not only in this thread but in others in the past, I’m sorry I forget that not all of you who are reading these lines have read my previous comments.

I know scientists are not infallible, although some of them think they are.

I know not all scientists believe the same thing. Read my previous post.

I know the Bible is not a science book. It’s more a history book (although there are scientific facts as well), and as such it describes historical events that took place long time ago to this particular people.

Not all the brains of the scientists have the same understanding of how the heavens go.

Isn’t it the Church more than the Bible who tells you how to go to heavens? It’s the non Catholics who believe it’s the Bible who tells you how to be saved.
 
To my brothers and sisters in Christ,

I strongly encourage all of you to notice but not take as true, any comments that this or that as recorded in the Old Testament requires physical proof of any kind. No, I’m not talking about archaeological finds of places, towns and cities that were mentioned in the Bible, but the constant, unrelenting repeating of the same questions about Adam and Eve, the Flood, Noah’s Ark and other miraculous events as recording in the Old Testament. No one was there, but the writer of Genesis who was inspired (God breathed) by the Holy Spirit wrote as he was given to write and no more or less.

I also encourage everyone to ignore and treat as false, any reference to some Babylonian or other civilization as being true and accurate sources of what is written in Genesis, though, in some cases, they may have experienced actual events recounted as myth (it didn’t happen) and legend. The Holy Spirit of God, not scientists, literally gave us the Bible.

Opinions do not matter, Church teaching does. And science has no ability to say this or that never happened. The problem? Those who claim that science can be used to dismiss certain events in the Bible as ā€œit never happened.ā€ So, I encourage you, ask those who hold up science against the work of God: So did God perform any miracles in the Old Testament? Any?

Jesus tells us that Moses wrote concerning Him. And He quotes the Old Testament.

Peace,
Ed
 
Yes, I believe in science that can be proved to be truthful. But here we are dealing with science that is not exact.
Yes we are. (good response, btw). Realize thought that this is precisely why we should properly use terms like ā€œevidenceā€ and not proof. Geology is much more accurate than climatolgy for sure, as it is closer to base facts. We can know that irridium is found in the KT boundry world wide and know that irridium is an element carried in primarily by meteorites. Therefore, it is highly probable that a meteorite collided with the Earth about that time. If we postulate an extinction theory from this, we get a lesser probability, though still high. If we try to apply this to future events, then we move even further from the data and we are only dealing with speculation.

So, major floods leave trace depending, among other things, on their severity. The bigger the flood the bigger the footprint. This is pretty solid because it is close to source data. If we find the time of a world wide flood, we should be able to find evidence throughout the world. It was that long ago, geologically speaking.

The Catholic Church has no problem with legitimate science that seeks the truth within its own discipline. In light of scientific discovery, it does not mandate a literal understanding either creation or the worldwide flood. One is free to believe, or not, whether this flood was worldwide. This is the Catholic position.
 
To my brothers and sisters in Christ,

I strongly encourage all of you to notice but not take as true, any comments that this or that as recorded in the Old Testament requires physical proof of any kind. No, I’m not talking about archaeological finds of places, towns and cities that were mentioned in the Bible, but the constant, unrelenting repeating of the same questions about Adam and Eve, the Flood, Noah’s Ark and other miraculous events as recording in the Old Testament. No one was there, but the writer of Genesis who was inspired (God breathed) by the Holy Spirit wrote as he was given to write and no more or less.

I also encourage everyone to ignore and treat as false, any reference to some Babylonian or other civilization as being true and accurate sources of what is written in Genesis, though, in some cases, they may have experienced actual events recounted as myth (it didn’t happen) and legend. The Holy Spirit of God, not scientists, literally gave us the Bible.

Opinions do not matter, Church teaching does. And science has no ability to say this or that never happened. The problem? Those who claim that science can be used to dismiss certain events in the Bible as ā€œit never happened.ā€ So, I encourage you, ask those who hold up science against the work of God: So did God perform any miracles in the Old Testament? Any?

Jesus tells us that Moses wrote concerning Him. And He quotes the Old Testament.

Peace,
Ed
Proselytizing is against the forum rules. Now if you would please get back to the issue at hand and address what I said for once.
 
Yes we are. (good response, btw). Realize thought that this is precisely why we should properly use terms like ā€œevidenceā€ and not proof. Geology is much more accurate than climatolgy for sure, as it is closer to base facts. We can know that irridium is found in the KT boundry world wide and know that irridium is an element carried in primarily by meteorites. Therefore, it is highly probable that a meteorite collided with the Earth about that time. If we postulate an extinction theory from this, we get a lesser probability, though still high. If we try to apply this to future events, then we move even further from the data and we are only dealing with speculation.

So, major floods leave trace depending, among other things, on their severity. The bigger the flood the bigger the footprint. This is pretty solid because it is close to source data. If we find the time of a world wide flood, we should be able to find evidence throughout the world. It was that long ago, geologically speaking.

The Catholic Church has no problem with legitimate science that seeks the truth within its own discipline. In light of scientific discovery, it does not mandate a literal understanding either creation or the worldwide flood. One is free to believe, or not, whether this flood was worldwide. This is the Catholic position.
Even if the evidence is currently underwater
 
Yes we are. (good response, btw). Realize thought that this is precisely why we should properly use terms like ā€œevidenceā€ and not proof. Geology is much more accurate than climatolgy for sure, as it is closer to base facts. We can know that irridium is found in the KT boundry world wide and know that irridium is an element carried in primarily by meteorites. Therefore, it is highly probable that a meteorite collided with the Earth about that time. If we postulate an extinction theory from this, we get a lesser probability, though still high. If we try to apply this to future events, then we move even further from the data and we are only dealing with speculation.

So, major floods leave trace depending, among other things, on their severity. The bigger the flood the bigger the footprint. This is pretty solid because it is close to source data. If we find the time of a world wide flood, we should be able to find evidence throughout the world. It was that long ago, geologically speaking.

The Catholic Church has no problem with legitimate science that seeks the truth within its own discipline. In light of scientific discovery, it does not mandate a literal understanding either creation or the worldwide flood. One is free to believe, or not, whether this flood was worldwide. This is the Catholic position.
I have no problem with the Church standing on science in general, and I have said before that maybe… just maybe the Church doesn’t want to go through ā€œThe Galileo Affair Part IIā€. There are things scientists say that I feel compelled to believe, others I don’t. It depends on the conclusions they arrive at, which sometimes sound more like science fiction than science. And most scientists of today grew up in a culture filled with science fiction. Don’t get me wrong, science fiction has been helpful in developing technology in different fields, like the cellular phone, which in some ways is a better communication devise than the one Dick Tracy used in his comic strip; we are a generation influenced by science fiction.

With so many scientists from so many countries, competing for fame and glory, competing for funds to finance their programs, some things can get out of hand. Medical research is a case where just 25 years ago or so witnessed two doctors, one American the other French, claiming they discovered the AIDS virus. From what I have read the American doctor was not the one who discovered it, he had been in contact with the French doctor who shared his research with the American. The American thought the virus was a mutant Hepatitis C virus, the French doctor classified it as a new virus. The French doctor told the American that he was going to make a public statement the following day letting the world know his findings. When they talked in France was night time. In America there were several more hours of daylight so the American doctor called a hurried news conference and told the reporters and the world about his discovery. When the french doctor awoke the following morning the discoverer of the AIDS virus was on the news and was someone else, not him. After years in courts the discovery was awarded to both doctors, but only one was the true discoverer.

This is just one case that we know because it made the news. How many cases are kept out of the public eye? We don`t know, maybe not many, but when we hear that teachers, researchers, doctors, etc. are fired because they have a different understanding of the data they study and don’t accept the ā€œofficial versionā€, then bells start sounding and we must accept that things are not like a fairy tale in the scientific world. When labels are applied to scientists to discredit them in front of public opinion, when they are ridiculed for what they, as scientists conclude, then something rotten smells in Science Land.

This upsets me. Instead of letting ideas flow and compete in a fair debate, we see some in power trampling the competing ideas. With the advent of internet we are able to find the other side of the coin on many subjects, this is one of them. The regular carriers of science news were no longer in control to decide what to publish and what to withheld from the public. In this way I discovered the other scientists and I’m more comfortable with their explanations.

Back in the the late 1920s in wells dug in Iraq, Sir Charles Leonard Woolley found a layer of mud about 10 feet thick. Above this mud he had found objects made by men. What surprised him is that below the layer of mud he found again objects made by men, and both the appearance and the art of the objects had changed. Above the layer of mud the objects were made with a lathe, but the ones below the layer of mud were made with the hands. To him this was the proof of the Flood, this was the only plausible explanation to the enormous accumulation of mud found in those wells in Iraq which clearly separated two human civilizations.

Was it the Genesis flood? You’re free to believe or reject this explanation of the layer of mud. What no one can reject is the fact that well below the surface of the ground in Iraq there is a layer of mud that fits perfectly with the Flood in Genesis.
 
I believe when the last Ice Age ended the melting of glaciers caused massive flooding. Bodies of water like the Great Lakes were formed and ocean levels rose. Previous inhabitable costliness vanished forever.
Since people tend to settle near water significant rises in water levels could be destructive even life changing. A signicant rainstorm may have been the catalyst for this great release of water.
Not many years ago, there was a huge rain storm over northwestern West Virginia. Less than the size of a medium sized hurricane it nonetheless dumped a huge quantity of rain and the tributaries of the Potomoc brought such a rush of water that hundreds of years of follage were stripped from the river banks, and the river bottoms showed all the boulders that lined its bottom. Never underestimate the power of water.
 
I have no problem with the Church standing on science in general, and I have said before that maybe… just maybe the Church doesn’t want to go through ā€œThe Galileo Affair Part IIā€. There are things scientists say that I feel compelled to believe, others I don’t. It depends on the conclusions they arrive at, which sometimes sound more like science fiction than science. And most scientists of today grew up in a culture filled with science fiction. Don’t get me wrong, science fiction has been helpful in developing technology in different fields, like the cellular phone, which in some ways is a better communication devise than the one Dick Tracy used in his comic strip; we are a generation influenced by science fiction.

With so many scientists from so many countries, competing for fame and glory, competing for funds to finance their programs, some things can get out of hand. Medical research is a case where just 25 years ago or so witnessed two doctors, one American the other French, claiming they discovered the AIDS virus. From what I have read the American doctor was not the one who discovered it, he had been in contact with the French doctor who shared his research with the American. The American thought the virus was a mutant Hepatitis C virus, the French doctor classified it as a new virus. The French doctor told the American that he was going to make a public statement the following day letting the world know his findings. When they talked in France was night time. In America there were several more hours of daylight so the American doctor called a hurried news conference and told the reporters and the world about his discovery. When the french doctor awoke the following morning the discoverer of the AIDS virus was on the news and was someone else, not him. After years in courts the discovery was awarded to both doctors, but only one was the true discoverer.

This is just one case that we know because it made the news. How many cases are kept out of the public eye? We don`t know, maybe not many, but when we hear that teachers, researchers, doctors, etc. are fired because they have a different understanding of the data they study and don’t accept the ā€œofficial versionā€, then bells start sounding and we must accept that things are not like a fairy tale in the scientific world. When labels are applied to scientists to discredit them in front of public opinion, when they are ridiculed for what they, as scientists conclude, then something rotten smells in Science Land.

This upsets me. Instead of letting ideas flow and compete in a fair debate, we see some in power trampling the competing ideas. With the advent of internet we are able to find the other side of the coin on many subjects, this is one of them. The regular carriers of science news were no longer in control to decide what to publish and what to withheld from the public. In this way I discovered the other scientists and I’m more comfortable with their explanations.

Back in the the late 1920s in wells dug in Iraq, Sir Charles Leonard Woolley found a layer of mud about 10 feet thick. Above this mud he had found objects made by men. What surprised him is that below the layer of mud he found again objects made by men, and both the appearance and the art of the objects had changed. Above the layer of mud the objects were made with a lathe, but the ones below the layer of mud were made with the hands. To him this was the proof of the Flood, this was the only plausible explanation to the enormous accumulation of mud found in those wells in Iraq which clearly separated two human civilizations.

Was it the Genesis flood? You’re free to believe or reject this explanation of the layer of mud. What no one can reject is the fact that well below the surface of the ground in Iraq there is a layer of mud that fits perfectly with the Flood in Genesis.
Scientific establishments don’t like anyone who challenges a ā€œbroad consensus,ā€ meaning basically, what scientists were taught in school. Galileo got into trouble not so much because he challenged the Church but because he challenged Aristotle. In the 13th Century, Aristotle was thought to be this ā€œwildā€ heathen by man Churchmen, and thinkers like Aquinas were castigated for using his science. But 400 years later, HE was the authority. Of course Galileo also failed to prove his theories in a very rigorous way. That would be left to Newton and Leibnitz.
 
I don’t need to worry about this issue because, though it is an interesting topic, the Church allows people to have a literalistic view or a symbolic view of the Great Flood.

I take the vintage Catholic view of the controversy in that the Flood is a divine mystery which can not be understood by mortal man.

Let’s wait for when our Lord returns when we will be ā€˜transformed’. He will settle all such issues that us (at present) untransformed mortals like to argue about.
 
Scientists are not God, throughfore they are not infallable. Also, not all mainline scienists believe that an astroid killed off the dinosaurs; some, like Dr. Robert Bakker, think the dinosaurs were either arlready gone or on the way to extintiona when the astreoid hit the earth. Oh, by the way, Dr. Bakker can also be called Rev. Bakker (he is an ordained minaster).🤷:whistle::tiphat:

One thing, the Bible is not a science book. The Bible tells how to go to Heaven, not how the heavens go. God gave us humans brains for that. šŸ‘šŸ˜ƒ
In the beginning - time
God created the heavens - space
and the earth - matter.

The very first line of Genesis gives us science that was only confirmed recently. :hmmm:
 
I don’t need to worry about this issue because, though it is an interesting topic, the Church allows people to have a literalistic view or a symbolic view of the Great Flood.

I take the vintage Catholic view of the controversy in that the Flood is a divine mystery which can not be understood by mortal man.

Let’s wait for when our Lord returns when we will be ā€˜transformed’. He will settle all such issues that us (at present) untransformed mortals like to argue about.
While we’re all waiting, I’d like to point out the very common pattern concerning people raising issues regarding the Book of Genesis. The only - constantly repeated - answers are:
  1. You’re wrong. You’re 100% wrong because we’ve got evidence. Evidence of what?
  2. Maybe you’re right and maybe you’re wrong.
  3. It doen’t matter. We’ll find out after we’re dead, which, of course, will not stop this subject from being brought up again and again and again.
Oh, and let’s not forget the ā€œStamp Out Literalismā€ crowd who go into a frenzy or become distressed when any Catholic interprets an event from Genesis literally. The implication being that not only are such Catholics wrong but something bad - which is totally undefined - will happen as a result.

Peace,
Ed
 
In the beginning - time
God created the heavens - space
and the earth - matter.

The very first line of Genesis gives us science that was only confirmed recently. :hmmm:
God is the Why things go, science tells how things go. It is science’s job to follow God’s thinking. :p:D
 
God is the Why things go, science tells how things go. It is science’s job to follow God’s thinking. :p:D
That can be so, but we have scientists supposedly telling us how things go, who don’t follow God’s thinking because they reject the existence of the One Why things go.
 
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