Do you believe the Kingdom of God is within you?

[Michael_Mayo]

It wasn’t “invented” it was retrieved and renamed.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

That is not what she said. She said it started 40 years ago with St. Joseph’s Abbey in Massachusetts. Don’t you remember the little story she told about the Zen retreat house opening up the road from the St. Joseph’s Abbey. People were getting lost and showing up at the Abbey. People were seeking spiritual guidance at the Zen retreat and Fr. Keating decided that they needed to figure out a way to tap into that and somehow find a “path” to make it Catholic. He assigned a monk to the task. The monk studied Hindu and read The Cloud of Unknowing and came up with an idea for a “path” to meld both religions together.

"

I read what Cynthia said about St Joseph’s Abbey when Fr Keating was Abbot there.

It was not accurate.

I go to St Joseph’s Abbey often and have made retreats there. I’ve spoken with some of the monks who were there at the time, and the accusation that the monks used Eastern Meditation practice into Catholicism is false.

They saw what Eastern Meditation was, and immediately knew that Christianity had a rich tradition of Contemplative Prayer going back to the 4th Century.

Abba Isaac and St John Cassian they were well familiar with and so sought to teach Catholics about Contemplative Prayer.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I am not saying to reject the teachings of saints or Discalced Carmelite authors.

You said you were not familiar with the translators, but saw those text used by New Agers
and so had a problem with what I posted from their translation of The Living Flame of Love…

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

It wasn’t “invented” it was retrieved and renamed.

Correct. Fr Keating and Fr Pennington were holding a retreat for religious, teaching what was called “Quiet Prayer,” or “Prayer of Quiet,” as it was officially called.

The used Fr Merton’s teaching on St John of the Cross, who used the word, “Center,” so often, the group began to refer to Quiet Prayer as “Centering Prayer.”

Since then that’s what it’s been called.

People in this forum confuse it with New Age Centering, which is not the same.

Centering Prayer is Christ Centered, nothing else.

Jim

 

[Michael_Mayo]

The concern here is “New Age”. We can turn to the Vatican Document.

As we evaluate anything in our Christian journey there are a few questions to help us discern:

4 NEW AGE AND CHRISTIAN FAITH IN CONTRAST

Is God a being with whom we have a relationship or something to be used or a force to be harnessed?

Is there just one Jesus Christ, or are there thousands of Christs?

The human being: is there one universal being or are there many individuals?

Do we save ourselves or is salvation a free gift from God?

Do we invent truth or do we embrace it?

Prayer and meditation: are we talking to ourselves or to God?

Are we tempted to deny sin or do we accept that there is such a thing?

Are we encouraged to reject or accept suffering and death?

Is social commitment something shirked or positively sought after?

Is our future in the stars or do we help to construct it?

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

 

[grannymh]

Correct. Fr Keating and Fr Pennington were holding a retreat for religious, teaching what was called “Quiet Prayer,” or “Prayer of Quiet,” as it was officially called.

The used Fr Merton’s teaching on St John of the Cross, who used the word, “Center,” so often, the group began to refer to Quiet Prayer as “Centering Prayer.”

Since then that’s what it’s been called.

People in this forum confuse it with New Age Centering, which is not the same.

Centering Prayer is Christ Centered, nothing else.

Jim

There is no doubt that prayer is important. The image of the Good Shepherd calls us to come to Him in prayer. Hopefully, you will be able to follow this simple reasoning. If not, I will try again…

First. We will establish that “prayer” is a valuable path to our Risen Lord, Jesus Christ.

“Like a shepherd, He feeds His flock;
in His arms He gathers the lambs,”
Isaiah 40: 11

“I am the Good Shepherd,
and I know mine
and mine know Me”
John 10: 14

We can easily recognize that a popular public internet meditation author can bring us to the Good Shepherd. So far so good?

The hidden danger occurs when this famous author tampers with the Catholic teaching that Original Sin exists at the dawn of human history. With sincere love for us, this famous author sidesteps this serious historical event because those first three famous chapters of Sacred Scripture are downright annoying.
myemail.constantcontact.com/Richard-Rohr-s-Meditation–Original-Blessing.html?soid=1103098668616&aid=yAlpFk3eNPc

Here comes the difficult part. When we look at the logic of Original Sin, we immediately recognize that the Divine Creator established His friendship relationship with an ordinary human creature, usually known as Adam. Genesis 1: 27. We all know that Adam is the greatest; but, when he deliberately shattered humanity’s relationship with Divinity, he did not have the right kind of glue to put the pieces together.

Adam needed a Divine Person to step into his sandals.

The Catholic Church teaches John 3: 16-17. The story is a familiar one. 1Corinthians 15: 53-55.

The haunting question goes directly to the Incarnation. Is Jesus truly the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity or is He an itinerant preacher with some special powers (John Dominic Crossan)?

 

[grannymh]

There is no doubt that prayer is important. The image of the Good Shepherd calls us to come to Him in prayer. Hopefully, you will be able to follow this simple reasoning. If not, I will try again…

First. We will establish that “prayer” is a valuable path to our Risen Lord, Jesus Christ.

“Like a shepherd, He feeds His flock;
in His arms He gathers the lambs,”
Isaiah 40: 11

“I am the Good Shepherd,
and I know mine
and mine know Me”
John 10: 14

We can easily recognize that a popular public internet meditation author can bring us to the Good Shepherd. So far so good?

The hidden danger occurs when this famous author (Reverend Richard Rohr) tampers with the Catholic teaching that Original Sin exists at the dawn of human history. With sincere love for us, this famous author/speaker sidesteps this serious historical event because those first three famous chapters of Sacred Scripture are downright annoying.
myemail.constantcontact.com/Richard-Rohr-s-Meditation–Original-Blessing.html?soid=1103098668616&aid=yAlpFk3eNPc

Here comes the difficult part. When we look at the logic of Original Sin, we should immediately recognize that the Divine Creator established His friendship relationship with an ordinary human creature, usually known as Adam. Genesis 1: 27. We all know that Adam is the greatest; but, when he deliberately shattered humanity’s relationship with Divinity, he did not have the right kind of glue to put the pieces together.

Adam needed a Divine Person to step into his sandals.

The Catholic Church teaches John 3: 16-17. The story is a familiar one. 1Corinthians 15: 53-55.

The haunting question goes directly to the Incarnation. Is Jesus truly the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity or is He an itinerant preacher with some special powers (John Dominic Crossan)?

 

[ThisOne]

The haunting question goes directly to the Incarnation. Is Jesus truly the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity or is He an itinerant preacher with some special powers (John Dominic Crossan)?

So what is your answer? Do you agree with a former Catholic priest? Why do bring up this subject, anyway?

 

[grannymh]

So what is your answer? Do you agree with a former Catholic priest? Why do bring up this subject, anyway?

Good questions. Thank you.

However, I have to leave for some commitments …

In the meantime, I wonder if there are any current CAF participants who have heard of Stealth (modern) Arianism. When I came across it as a kid reading my first adult biography of Jesus Christ, I recognized the meaning, but not the name. Some years back, there was a CAF thread about current Arianism. This thread died apparently from lack of interest.

When I read some of the stuff suggesting that Christianity needs rebuilding, I wonder if the authority of the true head of the Catholic Church (Mystical Body of Christ) is slyly being demoted. Is the Kingdom of God strong enough…

 

[grannymh]

So what is your answer? Do you agree with a former Catholic priest? Why do bring up this subject, anyway?

Thank you for waiting.

Here is my original question in post 188.
“The haunting question goes directly to the Incarnation. Is Jesus truly the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity or is He an itinerant preacher with some special powers (John Dominic Crossan)?”

My answer is that Jesus Christ is truly the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity.

Your question "Do You agree with a former Catholic priest?” I do not agree with any opposition to the Catholic Church provided by former Catholic priests or current Catholic Priests.

I bring up the issue of the Incarnation because there might be a few CAF participants who may relate it to the possibility that the Garden of Eden may have been the first Kingdom of God on planet earth. Obviously, the Garden Kingdom is not heaven.

 

[grannymh]

As I learn about the many ways we can think about the Kingdom of God, I am leaning toward YES the Kingdom of God is within us.

I believe that humans can live in the State of Sanctifying Grace. Because living in the State of Sanctifying Grace is the way we can share in God’s life ------ It should be reasonable that God brings His kingdom with Him.

 

[ThisOne]

As I learn about the many ways we can think about the Kingdom of God, I am leaning toward YES the Kingdom of God is within us.

I believe that humans can live in the State of Sanctifying Grace. Because living in the State of Sanctifying Grace is the way we can share in God’s life ------ It should be reasonable that God brings His kingdom with Him.

If He says it, it must be true!

 

[Michael_Mayo]

If He says it, it must be true!

So then God is within us as well. And yet we can feel so distant and alone. But it is in God that we “live and move and have our being” (Acts 17:28). And our life is hidden with Christ in God (Col 3:3). Is that why there are so many unbelievers and doubters? It is all so hidden and there is not enough faith to begin with? Today’s reading mentioned those who had been baptized and not yet received the Holy Spirit. They had not yet laid hands on them. (Acts8:14-17). I suspect there are many of us baptized believers who have not had the Holy Spirit come upon us. Without that inner personal experience, faith is more vulnerable than ever. But with it, faith is invincible.

“Do you believe the Kingdom of God is within you?” Do you experience it? Is it your life?

Do you see it in the trees and in the clouds? In the unfolding of life? And the love of family, friends and pets? Of all life in fact? This morning I noticed ants on the bathroom sink. I could let them have their way. I could try to capture them and let them outside. I think like most people would do, I grabbed a tissue and killed them. But it made me sad. They belong to God. They give glory to God by their simple being. God created them as they are. Alas!

 

[simpleas]

So then God is within us as well. And yet we can feel so distant and alone. But it is in God that we “live and move and have our being” (Acts 17:28). And our life is hidden with Christ in God (Col 3:3). Is that why there are so many unbelievers and doubters? It is all so hidden and there is not enough faith to begin with? Today’s reading mentioned those who had been baptized and not yet received the Holy Spirit. They had not yet laid hands on them. (Acts8:14-17). I suspect there are many of us baptized believers who have not had the Holy Spirit come upon us. Without that inner personal experience, faith is more vulnerable than ever. But with it, faith is invincible.

“Do you believe the Kingdom of God is within you?” Do you experience it? Is it your life?

Do you see it in the trees and in the clouds? In the unfolding of life? And the love of family, friends and pets? Of all life in fact? This morning I noticed ants on the bathroom sink. I could let them have their way. I could try to capture them and let them outside. I think like most people would do, I grabbed a tissue and killed them. But it made me sad. They belong to God. They give glory to God by their simple being. God created them as they are. Alas!

They give glory to God by their simple being…

That could be said of us too.

Maybe we try too hard to be perfect, trying to glorify God in ways that are difficult for some of us, that we actually miss the presence of God in our being, and in doing so, give up trying to seek the Kingdom.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

They give glory to God by their simple being…

That could be said of us too.

Maybe we try too hard to be perfect, trying to glorify God in ways that are difficult for some of us, that we actually miss the presence of God in our being, and in doing so, give up trying to seek the Kingdom.

That is a meditation!

 

[grannymh]

Sunday’s homily at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass briefly mentioned the “Kingdom of God” in relationship to the Mystical Body of Christ. The priest was saying that in the Mystical Body of Christ, there is a relationship of love. Not only God’s love, there is also relationship of love between we humans. A relationship of love sounds like a good explanation for the Kingdom of God.