Do you believe there is one true church?

[distracted]

The Catholic Church can only speculate as to what was going through the heads (and hearts) of the Apostles as the words of Scripture came together at their dictate.

You make a distinction between the Church and the Apostles. Basically, the Apostles WERE the Church (in the beginning…). I mean, they were the hierarchy. Now the hierarchy has grown to include the pope, bishops, priests worldwide…

believe that the Scriptures were written in some hard-to-decipher Bible Code

The Bible is not as simple as it sometimes sounds. And in 2 Peter, it says that we should not rely in personal interpretation. In fact, that’s putting it mildly. It says that no scripture is up 4 private interpretation.

I don’t consider myself a Protestant,

If you protest the Catholic Church (by not joining it, you are a Protestant.

have plenty of arguments calling for transubstantiation, yet I remain unconvinced due to the context of the passages. Heck, the Noahide laws, which were reinforced by Paul, strictly condemn the consuming of blood.

If Jesus tells us to drink his Blood (and eat his Body) i think we should do that, don’t you? If anyone could “break” the Mosaic law, it would be the Son of God, don’t you think? And yet, Transubstantiation is not breaking any law… It is the fulfillment of the law… as all things Christ did were…
I am curious about your background. In what church were you raised, what were you taught about Catholicism, etc.?? It would help in understanding where u r coming from. Thanks… God bless…

 

[distracted]

There you go again…the religion of relativism…if the crowd wants to do it then it must right and God should be OK with it.

Also: I heard that the percentage of people not using birth-control is 30%, not 5%. You have to question the people who take these polls. they could be asking (surveying) so-called Catholics, not real Catholics… I mean, a lot of people call themselves Catholic… but if you surveyed people who attend daily Mass, you would probaby come up with 70% or more who stick to natural family planning.
I was outside the Church for years when i was young. Even when i was uncatechized and totally OUT Of the Church, i never believed in birth-control (artificial)… OK, maybe its because i was baptized Ctholic and raised (somewhat) Catholic… but still, my point is that such things are unnatural and whatever goes against nature goes against God, who created nature…

 

[Janet_S]

Thank you. This helps.

Can you just clarify what you mean by ‘take a look at the big picture - the issue of authority’. It is the issue of authority on which I stumble badly, and I am not sure what you are saying here.

The big picture is does the CC have the authority she claims to have? If you come to accept that the CC was established by Christ, has divine authority, and communicates truth and grace to all, then you will trust whatever she teaches–all doctrines and moral teachings.

This is what the CC claims about itself in Lumen Gentium:
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

1. Christ, the one Mediator, established and continually sustains here on earth His holy Church, the community of faith, hope and charity, as an entity with visible delineation (9*) **through which He communicated truth and grace to all. But, the society structured with hierarchical organs and the Mystical Body of Christ, are not to be considered as two realities, nor are the visible assembly and the spiritual community, nor the earthly Church and the Church enriched with heavenly things; rather they form one complex reality which coalesces from a divine and a human element.(10) For this reason, by no weak analogy, it is compared to the mystery of the incarnate Word. As the assumed nature inseparably united to Him, serves the divine Word as a living organ of salvation, so, in a similar way, does the visible social structure of the Church serve the Spirit of Christ, who vivifies it, in the building up of the body.(73) (11)

 

[guanophore]

There is but one Church which Jesus Christ founded- Catholic - Roman Rite - all others were founded by egotistical men who thought they knew better than Christ.

I beg to differ with you on this point. I agree with the rest of your post, but Jesus did not form a “Roman Rite” Church. In fact, the Eastern Churches predated the Roman for some time. It was in Antioch that the believers were first called “Christians”. I think we need to value our Eastern brethren, and avoid being pompous about the Roman Rite. The Eastern Rites are recognized as equally valid by the Church, and it is our “Roman” pope who said that the Church needs to breathe with both lungs.

 

[jmcrae]

I beg to differ with you on this point. I agree with the rest of your post, but Jesus did not form a “Roman Rite” Church. In fact, the Eastern Churches predated the Roman for some time. It was in Antioch that the believers were first called “Christians”. I think we need to value our Eastern brethren, and avoid being pompous about the Roman Rite. The Eastern Rites are recognized as equally valid by the Church, and it is our “Roman” pope who said that the Church needs to breathe with both lungs.

This is true. I was taking Wy. Bob to mean that the true Church is the one whose headquarters are in Rome. I think he just misspoke by calling that the “Roman Rite” since there is no such thing as the “Roman Rite” - we are Roman Catholics of the Latin Rite, Byzantine Rite, Ukranian Rite, etc. etc. and so on.

 

[onetruechurch]

Yes, I believe there is one true church or my name isn’t

Onetruechurch:thumbsup:

 

[skeffer]

This is true. I was taking Wy. Bob to mean that the true Church is the one whose headquarters are in Rome. I think he just misspoke by calling that the “Roman Rite” since there is no such thing as the “Roman Rite” - we are Roman Catholics of the Latin Rite, Byzantine Rite, Ukranian Rite, etc. etc. and so on.

this is a quote from the book “We Believe” From the new testament to the present ,through all the ups and downs of history,the church has described itself as “one holy Catholic and apostolic.”:coffeeread:
The church is one. We believe that the catholic church is built on the rock, Peter, who proclaimed christ the son of God and that it is united under Peters successor,the pope. end of quote… I think that no matter what Rite you belong to you are catholic. I am just begining to study the catholic faith in order to become a catholic and If I’m wrong let me know . The catholic church is beautiful and God is the church,so for me God is beautiful and I love him and all that the Church stands for. God Bless all!!

 

[distracted]

This is true. I was taking Wy. Bob to mean that the true Church is the one whose headquarters are in Rome. I think he just misspoke by calling that the “Roman Rite” since there is no such thing as the “Roman Rite” - we are Roman Catholics of the Latin Rite, Byzantine Rite, Ukranian Rite, etc. etc. and so on.

Even so, i heard tht the Latin Rite is the “head” of the others… or soemthing like that…

 

[guanophore]

Even so, i heard tht the Latin Rite is the “head” of the others… or soemthing like that…

The Latin Rite is more popular in the Western world, but all the Rites are considered equally valid.

The bishop of Rome is considered to have primacy, but he is the servant of servants, and serves all the bishops in all the Rites.

 

[contramundum7]

Can you prove Purgatory using Scripture, not tradition? …I don’t think Catholics are heretics anymore so than Protestants (they’re both pretty far off from Scripture, but they’ll never admit that).

Catholics are not far from Scirpture… A non-Catholic once did a survey of how much time was spent at various church services in scripture reading (not commenting on scripture, but just reading it, word for word from the Bible). Most churches were in scripure 2% of the time. The most was 6% of the time. Cahtolics are in Scritpure 26% of the time…
I have studied scriputre, Church history, etc… The Catholic religion is totally in line with Scripture, something my Protestant acquaintences said was not true…
Purgatory is in many parts of the Bible. The book of Maccabbees that the Protestants reject says that Judas M prayed for the dead, that they “be loosed from their sins.”
Then there is 1 Cor. 3:13 that says that even if a man be saved, “yet so… as through fire…” Then there is Matt 18:23 that speaks of having to pay the entire debt (if u don’t 4-give people from the heart). The unforgiving servant was “turned over to the torturers until the entire debt was paid.” then there is Matt 12:32 which speaks of forgiveness in “the next age…” Revelation says that “no unclean thing will enter Heaven.”
Also, some scipture passages speak of punishment, while others speak of ETERNAL punishment… I don’t know if that was deliberate on the part of the writers or not but its interesting…
There are others but i can’t think of them right now… (pressed 4 time).
God bless… (Were u raised Protestant?)

 

[contramundum7]

The Latin Rite is more popular in the Western world, but all the Rites are considered equally valid.

The bishop of Rome is considered to have primacy, but he is the servant of servants, and serves all the bishops in all the Rites.

i think the Roman Catholic Church is considered the head. That’s where the Pope is…

 

[guanophore]

i think the Roman Catholic Church is considered the head. That’s where the Pope is…

I think that Jesus Christ is considered the head, and we are all parts of His Body!

 

[Carol_Coombe]

I think that Jesus Christ is considered the head, and we are all parts of His Body!

Is that not why we need to distinguish carefully in our minds and in our hearts the difference between God/Christ as our principal authority/leader/guide and mentor; and the Pope as leader of His Church and authority wrt His message to us, and be sure to which we owe allegiance, and in what circumstances?

 

[lak611]

Is that not why we need to distinguish carefully in our minds and in our hearts the difference between God/Christ as our principal authority/leader/guide and mentor; and the Pope as leader of His Church and authority wrt His message to us, and be sure to which we owe allegiance, and in what circumstances?

The Pope has been appointed by Christ as the authority of His Church here on earth.

 

[Carol_Coombe]

The Pope has been appointed by Christ as the authority of His Church here on earth.

With respect, God is I Am, the Pope is not; God is divine, the Pope is not; God is both Creator and Abba, the Pope is head of institutionalised Catholic Christianity; God is our godhead, the Pope is our mentor and the servant of God through the Church established by Christ.

 

[jmcrae]

With respect, God is I Am, the Pope is not; God is divine, the Pope is not; God is both Creator and Abba, the Pope is head of institutionalised Catholic Christianity; God is our godhead, the Pope is our mentor and the servant of God through the Church established by Christ.

That’s a great definition - I like it!

 

[guanophore]

Is that not why we need to distinguish carefully in our minds and in our hearts the difference between God/Christ as our principal authority/leader/guide and mentor; and the Pope as leader of His Church and authority wrt His message to us, and be sure to which we owe allegiance, and in what circumstances?

Absolutely, and this has been especially the case at times in history where the Popes have gotten off track with their personal behavior. An example of this can be found in the book of Galatians, where Paul tells how he confronted Peter for behaving hypocritically. However, let the one who thinks he stands take heed, lest he fall!

 

[Iowa_Mike]

There is a difference between God on one hand, and his will for us, and the Church on the other, and its interpretation and promotion of what its will is for us, usually grounded in its perception of God’s will.

It is not fair perhaps to say that this is a world where anything goes. I suggested earlier that in this world where we are taught to enquire, to think, to ask, to be curious, to think outside the box, to be creative, to be independent, to look into the future, to care for those who are oppressed, to share more of what we have with those who have nothing, it is difficult to ‘accept’ the thinking of one organisation - which may be informed by God but is composed of men. It may also just be that God is moving us on into a new world in which we are far more aware than we ever were before that we are all responsible for one another - the African concept of ubuntu.

Carol,

We are on earth for one reason and one reason only; to know, love and serve God. God set his precepts down for us to follow, not for you to second guess.

Iowa Mike

 

[guanophore]

There is a difference between God on one hand, and his will for us, and the Church on the other, and its interpretation and promotion of what its will is for us, usually grounded in its perception of God’s will.

If this is true, then God did not keep His promise to remain with us until the end of the age. When He confronted Paul on the road to Damascus, He was one and the same with his Body, the Church. If the Church cannot properly interpret Christ to the world, then Christ has abandoned His promise, HIs Body, and His church.

it is difficult to ‘accept’ the thinking of one organisation - which may be informed by God but is composed of men. It may also just be that God is moving us on into a new world in which we are far more aware than we ever were before that we are all responsible for one another - the African concept of ubuntu.

Ultimately, it is a question of whether one trusts God or not. Either He set it up this way, and kept His promise, or not.

I don’t doubt that God wants us to be far more aware that we are responsible for one another, but this is a principle that has been taught throughout salvation history. It does not originate with Christ, even, or with HIs appearance in Judea, but from the beginning of His history with his people.

 

[Carol_Coombe]

If this is true, then God did not keep His promise to remain with us until the end of the age. When He confronted Paul on the road to Damascus, He was one and the same with his Body, the Church. If the Church cannot properly interpret Christ to the world, then Christ has abandoned His promise, HIs Body, and His church.

I said it is the task of the Church to do just this: properly interpret Christ to the world. It claims, with reference particularly to the Pope and the Magisterium to be divinely inspired and generally without error.

I don’t doubt that God wants us to be far more aware that we are responsible for one another, but this is a principle that has been taught throughout salvation history. It does not originate with Christ, even, or with HIs appearance in Judea, but from the beginning of His history with his people.

Historically the principle is confirmed. The practice has differed substantially throughout history however, as the last two centuries demonstrate.