Do you bless yourself?

[EvangelCatholic]

I’ve seen some people bless themselves in a mocking way, and I make sure to never do that. I only bless myself when I am praying, or upon entering a Church. I make the Sign of the Cross where you touch your head, heart, left shoulder, right shoulder. I don’t know if that is what you are referring to as the traditional Western Church way, or if it is different.

I was corrected earlier in the threat and posted this:

EvangelCatholic;11576533]Oops

You’re right. In the Western Church the sign of the cross is forehead, heart, left shoulder, right shoulder; opposite in Eastern Church though I am not sure why.

In baptism, the pastor/ priest makes the sign of the holy cross [usually with holy oil] on the forehead and heart of the infant or adult. On Ash Wednesday, a cross of ashes/ oil is made on the forehead of all who desire the sign of our salvation through the holy Cross. Holy water [water that has been blessed] either in the baptismal font or smaller basins is available for anyone to dip fingers into and bless oneself. The sign of the cross is made several times at Mass both by the pastor/ priest and parishioners.

Lutherans have maintained the custom from the Early Church. I have observed Catholics and Anglicans/ Episcopalians bless themselves also. Is the custom becoming more common among other Christians?

 

[EvangelCatholic]

To summarize what I said in the other thread, Lutherans do not believe in receptionism according to the usual definition, but the Lutheran confessions seem to teach that the treal presence of Christ is confined to a single Lord’s Supper and terminates with the reception of the congregation. For example, the Formula of Concord condemns the Catholic belief that the Real Presence endures when the Sacrament is carried (to the sick) in a pyx. Since the LCMS has a similar practice as Catholics do with regard to communion of the sick, I don’t know how to read this, even if I stretch the bounds of interpretation, as anything other than a denial of the real presence outside of the service. If you think ther is a different meaning of this passage, please share in the other thread.

Nevertheless, it should be repeated that Lutherans are not supposed to believe in receptionism (although some unfortunately do, as you noted). The Formula of Concord teaches that the consecration is a proper part of the Lord’s Supper and so the Real Presence applies from consecration to reception.

Maybe he meant from the perspective of an observer.

There is a separate thread on “Receptionism” but a quick comment anyway. The Book of Concord/ Augustana Confession is a historic statement of faith that identifies what were abuses in the Holy Church at the time of Luther. There may be inconsistencies in how Lutherans follow our confessions but the importance of the Mass is our direct “Real” interaction with Christ’s Body and Blood. It appears most Lutherans believe that the Real Presence remains after reception and after the Eucharist, thus the custom of communing those from the holy Elements even days later.

 

[thequietsinger]

I read that the “opposite” crossing of East v. West was because of the filioque, and to symbolize the 2 different sayings or beliefs. Anyone confirm or deny this?

From this website: orthodox.net/articles/about-crossing-oneself.html

Because the Lord separated the sheep from the goats, putting the faithful sheep on His right side, and the goats on the left, the Church always treats the right side as the preferred side. We only cross ourselves with our RIGHT hand. The priest, when blessing a person, first touches or points to their RIGHT side, then their left. Also the censing of the Holy Table in the Altar is always done from the RIGHT side first; censing of the Ikonostasis, the Congregation and of the Church itself always begins with the right side. The priest always gives communion with his RIGHT hand, even if he is left handed. There are other examples of this right side preference./

According to the website, Catholics used to cross themselves right to left until the 15th or 16th century, but I can’t really find anything explaining why it was changed.

 

[QNDNNDQDCE]

There is a separate thread on “Receptionism” but a quick comment anyway. The Book of Concord/ Augustana Confession is a historic statement of faith that identifies what were abuses in the Holy Church at the time of Luther. There may be inconsistencies in how Lutherans follow our confessions but the importance of the Mass is our direct “Real” interaction with Christ’s Body and Blood. It appears most Lutherans believe that the Real Presence remains after reception and after the Eucharist, thus the custom of communing those from the holy Elements even days later.

Check your private messages.

From this website: orthodox.net/articles/about-crossing-oneself.html

Because the Lord separated the sheep from the goats, putting the faithful sheep on His right side, and the goats on the left, the Church always treats the right side as the preferred side. We only cross ourselves with our RIGHT hand. The priest, when blessing a person, first touches or points to their RIGHT side, then their left. Also the censing of the Holy Table in the Altar is always done from the RIGHT side first; censing of the Ikonostasis, the Congregation and of the Church itself always begins with the right side. The priest always gives communion with his RIGHT hand, even if he is left handed. There are other examples of this right side preference./

That rule does not seem to be applied in all cases. For example, the left side of the altar is the Gospel side even though we reverance the Gospels most of all the Holy Scriptures.

 

[Peter_J]

No doubt it is. For Anglo-Catholics, it is commonplace. At a guess, during an average Mass, I’ll cross myself 12+ times.

GKC

In the PNCC’s mass, I counted (I think) 7.

Anyhow, this discussion makes me think back to my first Ukrainian Catholic liturgy, and how often they cross themselves … then, a couple years later I went to my first Melkite liturgy and thought “Oh, I guess the UGCC don’t cross themselves so much after all.”

 

[EvangelCatholic]

In the PNCC’s mass, I counted (I think) 7.

Anyhow, this discussion makes me think back to my first Ukrainian Catholic liturgy, and how often they cross themselves … then, a couple years later I went to my first Melkite liturgy and thought “Oh, I guess the UGCC don’t cross themselves so much after all.”

It is natural to outwardly express praise and keeps the individual in a state of deep grace

 

[GKC]

In the PNCC’s mass, I counted (I think) 7.

Anyhow, this discussion makes me think back to my first Ukrainian Catholic liturgy, and how often they cross themselves … then, a couple years later I went to my first Melkite liturgy and thought “Oh, I guess the UGCC don’t cross themselves so much after all.”

And I always miss a couple.

GKC

 

[Peter_J]

Does anyone know why the Roman-Rite mass has only 2? And did there used to be more than 2?

 

[thequietsinger]

Does anyone know why the Roman-Rite mass has only 2? And did there used to be more than 2?

Do you mean when they cross themselves during Mass? From what I understand, they cross themselves when the Priest gives the blessing at the beginning and at the end of the Mass, when he says the “In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

 

[Peter_J]

Do you mean when they cross themselves during Mass? From what I understand, they cross themselves when the Priest gives the blessing at the beginning and at the end of the Mass, when he says the “In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

Yes, those two.

 

[thequietsinger]

Yes, those two.

Hmm, I’m not exactly sure. It seems as though they bless themselves with the Sign of the Cross while the Priest blesses them, but that doesn’t make too much sense to me now that I think about it. I will do some research and post an answer when I find one, because I vaguely remember reading about the significance of it somewhere.

 

[jaimeleglise]

Yes, I often make the Sign of The Cross. I do it at Mass, before/after grace, when I see a stopped police car or an ambulance, etc. It is a very powerful devotion. St. Francis de Sales write a whole book on it. (Available from Sophia Institute Press).

I get especially inspired when I see an MLB player do it.

 

[Peter_J]

Hmm, I’m not exactly sure. It seems as though they bless themselves with the Sign of the Cross while the Priest blesses them, but that doesn’t make too much sense to me now that I think about it. I will do some research and post an answer when I find one, because I vaguely remember reading about the significance of it somewhere.

Alright. But before going on I want to ask, Do you mean with regard to why there are only two, or something different?

 

[Kliska]

From this website: orthodox.net/articles/about-crossing-oneself.html
Because the Lord separated the sheep from the goats, putting the faithful sheep on His right side, and the goats on the left, the Church always treats the right side as the preferred side. We only cross ourselves with our RIGHT hand. The priest, when blessing a person, first touches or points to their RIGHT side, then their left. Also the censing of the Holy Table in the Altar is always done from the RIGHT side first; censing of the Ikonostasis, the Congregation and of the Church itself always begins with the right side. The priest always gives communion with his RIGHT hand, even if he is left handed. There are other examples of this right side preference.

According to the website, Catholics used to cross themselves right to left until the 15th or 16th century, but I can’t really find anything explaining why it was changed.

Interesting, thanks!

 

[JonNC]

Yes, those two.

Don’t they make the sign of the cross on their foreheads during the announcement of the Gospel?

Jon

 

[GKC]

Don’t they make the sign of the cross on their foreheads during the announcement of the Gospel?

Jon

Or forehead, lips and heart?

GKC

 

[EvangelCatholic]

I know some athletes may be crossing themselves while at bat or before a free throw just like some people keep a rabbit’s foot in their pocket. In my opinion, it is inappropriate to cross yourself to be better at a sport even though we see athletes do it regularly. But even when a person crosses themselves for luck, the sign of the cross is a holy gesture that reminds all of Christ Crucified.

 

[judynurse]

Perhaps some of them are doing it with a prayer that they may play or perform well. I know a classically trained mezzo soprano who always does so prior to singing for a congregation or a performance. She is also Catholic.

 

[jaimeleglise]

EvangelCatholic and Judynurse, you both raise excellent points. Thank you very much for pointing this out to me. God bless you.

 

[peace2u2]

Yes, I mark myself with the sign of our salvation, , the cross of the risen Jesus before and after I pray to Him.

God is more concerned with our inner hearts and not so much about our outward appearances so we should remember that our outward signs should be in harmony with our inner heart and we shouldn’t be concerned with what others think but we make these signs and gestures because we love God and want to show our love for Him and those who think those who make those outward signs and gestures are not being sincere should bite thou tongue:

Luke 6:36
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.”

I also just ask Him to Bless me with my lips by just speaking those words to Bless me and how I desire for Him to Bless me and also others and also my enemies. God delights in Blessing us so we should ask.