Do you commit the sin of wasting time?

[Nick9]

but what is meant by behond the call of duty?

I believe we should always be “on call” to do the Lord’s work. When we are resting we should be also praying… not watching shows like “2 1/2 Losers” on TV… (etc)

I agree with you. We should always be available to the Lord. What I meant was our responsibilities (duties) according to our state of life come first and then extra works can come as the Lord inspires and opportunity dictates. For example, I am bound to go to Mass every week, but I am not bound to visit someone in prison today (if my state of life does not necessitate it). I have a regular routine of responsibilities which I am duty bound to meet and all other works are extra and need discerning as the occasion arises (they may even supplant my duties if they are serious enough). I was just making the point that such extra works should be done with a certain spontaneity and cheerfulness. Maybe I should drop this…

 

[Nick9]

“but what is meant by behond the call of duty?”

Exactly, though I appreciate nick9’s struggle and honesty, it seems to me that no one ever does anything beyond the call of duty, unless one really thinks they are obeying the 2GC perfectly and are obeying the command to “be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect”

one example of duty would be the demands of the rule of a religious order. Going beyond those minimal demands is what I mean by going beyond the call of duty. St Therese of Liseaux gives many examples in her little daily penances. The religious life is a state of perfection in itself, but there are different levels within this state.

“So you also, when you shall have done all these things that are commanded you, say: We are unprofitable servants; we have done that which we ought to do.”

I agree that nothing we do is good enough. But there is the difference between an ordinary person who gets to heaven through doing what is expected and having the necessary faith and a saint who does far more than is expected. Both have not done enough, but one has gone beyond the minimal duties.

One should be so lucky to even call themselves an unprofitable servant, let alone someone who has gone “above and beyond” God’s commands. Every sin of omission is also a sin of commission to some extent (that being self-idolatry).

but doing your duty is not a sin of omission, but it is enough to keep you in a state of grace. There are different levels of works and levels of grace, just as there are different levels of sinfulness. Doing what is necessary to be in a state of grace is one thing, another is going beyond what is necessary, for greater love of God.

Maybe I am wrong, I am just expanding on what I understood from my pp.

 

[Nick9]

one example of duty would be the demands of the rule of a religious order. Going beyond those minimal demands is what I mean by going beyond the call of duty. St Therese of Liseaux gives many examples in her little daily penances. The religious life is a state of perfection in itself, but there are different levels within this state.

I agree that nothing we do is good enough. But there is the difference between an ordinary person who gets to heaven through doing what is expected and having the necessary faith and a saint who does far more than is expected. Both have not done enough, but one has gone beyond the minimal duties.

but doing your duty is not a sin of omission, but it is enough to keep you in a state of grace. There are different levels of works and levels of grace, just as there are different levels of sinfulness. Doing what is necessary to be in a state of grace is one thing, another is going beyond what is necessary, for greater love of God.

Maybe I am wrong, I am just expanding on what I understood from my pp.

 

[Nick9]

nice to know someone understands…

but you know… nagging God brings a lot of grace… (I just found out )… so it isn’t a total waste of time…

I forgot about the importunate widow. Better keep knocking on heaven’s door then

 

[distracted]

I forgot about the importunate widow. Better keep knocking on heaven’s door then

i forgot about her also… thanks for the reminder…

maybe she is a saint in Heaven now and would intervene for people like us who are so muddle-headed we can’t figure out what God is thinking…

(I always try to do that… figure out God…

Now THAT is a waste of time…

unless you have decided that you want to sacrifice something for God, namely your MIND!! :banghead: :hypno:

 

[Nick9]

maybe she is a saint now and would intervene for people like us who are so muddle-headed we can’t figure out what God is thinking…

thanks for the compliment…sad but true

 

[distracted]

thanks for the compliment…sad but true

don’t feel bad - even Jesus (it SEEMS) couldn’t figure out why he had to die on a cross… Well… he probably knew why but … according to the accounts of the time in the Garden, he seemed to think there just might could possibly be another way ???

 

[Nick9]

don’t feel bad - even Jesus (it SEEMS) couldn’t figure out why he had to die on a cross… Well… he probably knew why but … according to the accounts of the time in the Garden, he seemed to think there just might could possibly be another way ???

I think that was His human nature taking over. It is because He shared our weaknesses that He lets me off so much

 

[distracted]

Current interpretations are therefore much less stringent and comprehensive than they were in medieval times, and portray sloth as being more simply a sin of laziness or indifference, of an unwillingness to act, an unwillingness to care (rather than a failure to love God and his works). For this reason sloth is now often seen as being considerably less serious than the other sins, more a sin of omission than one of commission.

I’m guilty of it, definitely. But in this modern, hustle-bustle world, sometimes it seems like the best thing to do is chill out.

i thought i was guilty of this sin but by how you describe it, i am not… because i DO love God more than anything… My problem is that i don’t always love the work i feel he may want me to do… and the only reason i have that problem is that i am always thinking (for some reason) that i should possibly be doing something else… And i could be right… I once had the feeling (& much more than just feeling) that God wanted me to do this one thing… but it required the help of another particular person & that person didn’t want to cooperate… So possibly god’s will concerning that matter was not fulfilled… :hypno: something that was entirely NOT my fault… as i did everything i could… (very long story)…

Anyway… enjoyed reading your post… Thanks…

 

[distracted]

I think that was His human nature taking over. It is because He shared our weaknesses that He lets me off so much

i think that may be a good way to put it… I’ve had it happen that i have felt very… well, like a total failure with God… on my wya to Hell even… only to go & spend time with Jesus at the blessed Sacrament where He shows me that i am only a failure in the minds of humans, not Him… Sometiems, unfortunately, we humans get those 2 mixed up…

 

[Nick9]

i think that may be a good way to put it… I’ve had it happen that i have felt very… well, like a total failure with God… on my wya to Hell even… only to go & spend time with Jesus at the blessed Sacrament where He shows me that i am only a failure in the minds of humans, not Him… Sometiems, unfortunately, we humans get those 2 mixed up…

I get where you are coming from. I am the same: often condemning myself, but every now and then I get a glimpse of God’s mercy and love and I am restored.

 

[distracted]

I get where you are coming from. I am the same: often condemning myself, but every now and then I get a glimpse of God’s mercy and love and I am restored.

do you spend much time at the Blessed Sacramnet?

yeah, if i were to have to accept the judgment(s) of humans as my eternal fate, i would be frying in Hell right now… meaning some people wouldn’t bother waiting until i died…

 

[ConservativeOne]

I’m sure I’ve been guilty of wasting precious time - God forgive me. I’ve never even thought of confessing it. So many things we do / take for granted that are sins (venial or mortal) that go unnoticed.

 

[Nick9]

do you spend much time at the Blessed Sacramnet?

yeah, if i were to have to accept the judgment(s) of humans as my eternal fate, i would be frying in Hell right now… meaning some people wouldn’t bother waiting until i died…

I must confess I do not spend that much time in adoration, but I do go to a prayer group every week which we hold in the Blessed Sacrament chapel. This is a great blessing.

It is easy to be judgmental with each other. I wish I had held my tongue a bit more over the years. Jesus says: judge not and you will not be judged. We don’t see things as He does. There are many who we judge as unworthy who are probably more worthy than us. Better to keep our eyes on ourselves unless it is our responsibility to oversee someone and then our correction should be given with love not condemnation.

 

[The_Dude]

“What I meant was our responsibilities (duties) according to our state of life come first and then extra works can come as the Lord inspires and opportunity dictates. For example, I am bound to go to Mass every week, but I am not bound to visit someone in prison today (if my state of life does not necessitate it).”

Right, you are not bound to visit someone in prison, but you ARE bound to follow the 2GC - as I said this will vary from person to person according to their circumstances and abilities. Obviously a wealthy father would serve God and his neighbor much differently than a college student or a poor elderly woman; Christians aren’t meant to be a bunch of clones. My point is that many don’t even REALIZE their sin when they sit around doing their own thing (and of course, someone at the soup kitchen every week can be just as sinful or even moreso with their motives or thoughts).

“one example of duty would be the demands of the rule of a religious order. Going beyond those minimal demands is what I mean by going beyond the call of duty. St Therese of Liseaux gives many examples in her little daily penances. The religious life is a state of perfection in itself, but there are different levels within this state.”

I understand now. Sure someone should not go out to a soup kitchen every day when they have a family to take care of, or an employer to work for, if done at the expense of those God-given responsiblities. There are spheres of priority in godly living. But they also have no excuse for laying around doing nothing or putting their recreation first or what have you (although we all do it! sin still infects us).

“I agree that nothing we do is good enough. But there is the difference between an ordinary person who gets to heaven through doing what is expected and having the necessary faith and a saint who does far more than is expected. Both have not done enough, but one has gone beyond the minimal duties.”

"but doing your duty is not a sin of omission, but it is enough to keep you in a state of grace. There are different levels of works and levels of grace, just as there are different levels of sinfulness. Doing what is necessary to be in a state of grace is one thing, another is going beyond what is necessary, for greater love of God.

“beyond the minimal duties”, “Beyond what is necessary” - see this is where I miss something - God COMMANDS us with the 2GC and elsewhere: “be perfect”, “unless your righteousness exceeds”, “any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple” etc. etc. There is no “try your best, or this is a level you must reach, anything above this is just gravy”. I understand in RC theology there is the notion of the evangelical counsels that exceed the minimum required by the Commandments which is what you are referring to here I assume, but my view is that those commands seen as merely “suggestions” are still COMMANDMENTS and hence, law; they are still encapsulated by the 2GC (which stem from the 1st Commandment). Indeed,if they were just suggestions, why does Christ then say after the Rich Young Ruler leaves after he gives one of the counsels that “it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." This is why I mentioned sins of omission are still sins of self-idolatry (indeed all sin is, to some extent) which does in some sense violate the 10C. But this starts getting into mortal/venial sin distinction, which I think is very difficult to ascertain given our discussion here. If all sin is idolatry and a violation of the 2GC (which sums up the entire Law), and idolatry is a violation of the 10C, why is not all sin of grave matter?

This was one of Luther’s main problems, the idea that keeping the 10C perfectly, or with only venial violations, is pretty common and easy while the countless violations of the 2GC don’t really matter much, which is why in his exposition on the 10C in the Larger Catechism he says, “Let us see now what our great saints can boast of their spiritual orders and their great and grievous works which they have invented and set up, while they let these [the 10C] pass, as though they were far too insignificant, or had long ago been perfectly fulfilled.” and “But see, is not that a cursed presumption of those desperate saints who dare to invent a higher and better life and estate than the Ten Commandments teach, pretending (as we have said) that this is an ordinary life for the common man, but that theirs is for saints and perfect ones? And the miserable blind people do not see that no man can get so far as to keep one of the Ten Commandments as it should be kept, but both the Apostles’ Creed and the Lord’s Prayer must come to our aid”

I do not mean to hijack this thread into a Protestant propoganda piece. I just think the Lutheran view of the Law really drives home how far off we are in not sinning, as I think some in this thread rightfully sense.

 

[Nick9]

Right, you are not bound to visit someone in prison, but you ARE bound to follow the 2GC - as I said this will vary from person to person according to their circumstances and abilities.

My point is that many don’t even REALIZE their sin when they sit around doing their own thing (and of course, someone at the soup kitchen every week can be just as sinful or even moreso with their motives or thoughts).

I agree that we are bound to follow the 2 Greatest Commandments and that the implementation of this will differ according to our circumstances. I think that ‘sitting around doing your own thing’ can be ok if it is recreation for the sake of rest and so on. It is like recharging your batteries for further work and can achieve more in the long run than working flat out and exhausting yourself.

I understand now. Sure someone should not go out to a soup kitchen every day when they have a family to take care of, or an employer to work for, if done at the expense of those God-given responsiblities. There are spheres of priority in godly living. But they also have no excuse for laying around doing nothing or putting their recreation first or what have you (although we all do it! sin still infects us).

I agree with you. Rest should not come first, but should be a means to the greater end of doing God’s work. I also agree that theory and practice are often very different!

I understand in RC theology there is the notion of the evangelical counsels that exceed the minimum required by the Commandments which is what you are referring to here I assume, but my view is that those commands seen as merely “suggestions” are still COMMANDMENTS and hence, law; they are still encapsulated by the 2GC (which stem from the 1st Commandment). Indeed,if they were just suggestions, why does Christ then say after the Rich Young Ruler leaves after he gives one of the counsels that “it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."

I would love to give my possessions away, but I was advised against it by a previous director priest. I think he spoke God’s will, here, and that I was acting in pride. I had no peace when I did give them away at one time and I was full of scruples. I was not happy and knew something was wrong. Jesus does not ask all His disciples to give all their material possessions away. Look at the case of Zacchaeus (Lk.19) who gave only half is property to the poor and yet Jesus said that salvation had come to his house. The Rich Young Ruler had obviously made a god of his wealth and needed to be freed from it by radical poverty, but not so Zacchaeus. Jesus’ saying that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven is true because God and mammon are rivals for our hearts, but if money is seen as something on loan, that we are stewards of, then it can be possessed legitimately. This is what the Zacchaeus story suggests to me.

This is why I mentioned sins of omission are still sins of self-idolatry (indeed all sin is, to some extent) which does in some sense violate the 10C. But this starts getting into mortal/venial sin distinction, which I think is very difficult to ascertain given our discussion here. If all sin is idolatry and a violation of the 2GC (which sums up the entire Law), and idolatry is a violation of the 10C, why is not all sin of grave matter?

There has to be a deliberate element in our sin for it to be idolatry. We can commit a sin through human weakness, such as tiredness, fear, or absent mindedness, which is not a rejection of God’s will because it was not done with full consent against that will. Also, not all sins are of equal gravity. Resting a bit too long is less serious than murder for obvious reasons. They may both violate the Ten Commandments, but the first one does so to a much lesser degree. Murder is more directly against charity and so charity (which communicates God’s life) is more easily lost through it. This is common sense.

This was one of Luther’s main problems, the idea that keeping the 10C perfectly, or with only venial violations, is pretty common and easy while the countless violations of the 2GC don’t really matter much, which is why in his exposition on the 10C in the Larger Catechism he says, “Let us see now what our great saints can boast of their spiritual orders and their great and grievous works which they have invented and set up, while they let these [the 10C] pass, as though they were far too insignificant, or had long ago been perfectly fulfilled.” and “But see, is not that a cursed presumption of those desperate saints who dare to invent a higher and better life and estate than the Ten Commandments teach, pretending (as we have said) that this is an ordinary life for the common man, but that theirs is for saints and perfect ones? And the miserable blind people do not see that no man can get so far as to keep one of the Ten Commandments as it should be kept, but both the Apostles’ Creed and the Lord’s Prayer must come to our aid”

It is a humbling thought when we realise that our attempts at perfection fall short. Sanctification is largely God’s work in us but we must consent to what He is doing. It involves failure, but we have Christ the Great Physician to pick us up and keep us going.

I do not mean to hijack this thread into a Protestant propoganda piece. I just think the Lutheran view of the Law really drives home how far off we are in not sinning, as I think some in this thread rightfully sense.

Yes we all sin, thanks be to Christ for redeeming us!

 

[crenfro]

Thank you for this topic!!!

I have a terrible time with wasting time - especially feeling sorry for myself, being depressed and wasting time on the internet.

Please pray for me.

Am now going to look at the other posts in this thread to see if I can get some ideas/motivation.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Thank you for this topic!!!

I have a terrible time with wasting time - especially feeling sorry for myself, being depressed and wasting time on the internet.

Please pray for me.

Am now going to look at the other posts in this thread to see if I can get some ideas/motivation.

\

Keeping all of us who do waste time on the internet in prayer. You are not alone! I do find it helpful to put on the timer and when that goes off, to make myself move away from the computer and do something else. This is helpful for me. Mind you, I feel absolutely lousy having to move away from the computer and do some other duty…but it is not impossible of course to move away anyway. Mind over matter.

 

[distracted]

pass, as though they were far too insignificant, or had long ago been perfectly fulfilled."

just being honest but i don’t like Luther & i hate when people use his quotes when most of the time, as here, they don’t make sense… those belonging to religoius orders do not ignore the 10 C… that doesn’t make a lick of sense…

Prt,esand “But see, is not that a cursed presumption of those desperate saints who dare to invent a higher and better life and estate than the Ten Commandments teach, pretending (as we have said) that this is an ordinary life for the common man, but that theirs is for saints and perfect ones? And the miserable blind people do not see that no man can get so far as to keep one of the Ten Commandments as it should be kept, but both the Apostles’ Creed and the Lord’s Prayer must come to our aid”

I.

Luther’s words drip with hatred & contempt…

 

[distracted]

I would love to give my possessions away, but I was advised against it by a previous director priest. I think he spoke God’s will, here,

maybe… maybe not… Call no man your father (meaning: don’t do everything he says as though he were God himself…). after all i have been through with priests :hypno: i frankly have a hard time listening to them even when i feel they are sincere… Once burnt, twice shy, as they say…

Jesus does not ask all His disciples to give all their material possessions away.

why would Jesus ask something of one person & not another? we are all equal in his eyes… I do not believe Jesus wants all of us to give up every last material possession we have. I believe we are to share with the needy our excess… & we are all ALWAYs called to give up our possessions in our heart… to detach from them totally but that is extremely difficult if not impossible to do when we have a lot of creature comforts… Show me someone who has these things & is not attached to them to some degree or another… Jesus said that if our right eye offends us, we need to pluck it out… In other words, do anything you have to in order to avoid Hell… He said that getting to Heaven was NOT easy (St. Matthew 7:21, etc…)