Do you consider this necessary for salvation?

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Are prayer & meditation actually considered “works”? (“Not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of the Father”… I am sure it is God’s will for us to pray and meditate… but how much?)

People who enter convents & monestaries and live a contemplative life… don’t seem to be fulfilling (??) St. Matthew 25:31-46 (feed the hungry, etc.)… although i think most contemplatives do some kinds of charity work?? I don’t know much about how they live…

I would just like some clarity on all this…
 
distracted said:
Are prayer & meditation actually considered “works”? (“Not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of the Father”… I am sure it is God’s will for us to pray and meditate… but how much?)

…
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We are told to “pray w/o ceasing” … chap/verse ??

Basically, we all should shoot to be spirit filled to the degree we can view daily events via filter of H.S.

We need to be holy … just not having ‘holier than thou’ attitudes.

There is a proper balance … too little and we fall back into world of sin, too much and we become too monk-like. Our lights must shine … but not be a neon sign.
 
distracted said:
Are prayer & meditation actually considered “works”? (“Not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of the Father”… I am sure it is God’s will for us to pray and meditate… but how much?)

Prayer for others IS a work of mercy.

Contemplative monks, brothers, and nuns do our world an invaluable service by praying for all of us. We need more of them-they pray for the entire world, for peace, for the conversion of sinners and the salvation of those who do not believe in Jesus. They pray for the common good.

So, say a prayer for them to keep praying-esp for all the lukewarm Catholics, the lapsed Catholics, and all those who just can not be bothered to pray for others.

YES, prayer for others is necessary for salvation,-if you do not do it for yourself, thank God that there are those religious persons(and others) who will:thumbsup:

They are in great company as our Mother, Mary prays for us all, all the time.
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BRB said:
We are told to “pray w/o ceasing” … chap/verse ??
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thank you… i had forgotten about that scripture… 🙂
Basically, we all should shoot to be spirit filled to the degree we can view daily events via filter of H.S.
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that is why i like to pray… and why i asked the questions… i wonder if i pray to much sometimes… Am i maybe neglecting other things??
We need to be holy …
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I feel i could pray and do nothing else for the rest of my life and still not be holy enough… 😃
There is a proper balance … too little and we fall back into world of sin, too much and we become too monk-like. Our lights must shine … but not be a neon sign.
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Why not?? Why not a neon sign??
 
Jimdandy said:
Prayer for others IS a work of mercy.

Contemplative monks, brothers, and nuns do our world an invaluable service by praying for all of us. We need more of them-they pray for the entire world, for peace, for the conversion of sinners and the salvation of those who do not believe in Jesus. They pray for the common good.
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Thanks for reminding me of that. Maybe the worldly spriit is creeping in and that’s why i forgot about that… :eek: Meaning: it is the world that “tells” us that there are more “practical” things (realistic) things to do… Also, it doesn’t help that when i was young, my mother always got on my case when i would sit and read… she always thought it was superior to be active doing things…

Thank you… I feel better now… 🙂
 
distracted said:
thank you… i had forgotten about that scripture… 🙂
that is why i like to pray… and why i asked the questions… i wonder if i pray to much sometimes… Am i maybe neglecting other things??
I feel i could pray and do nothing else for the rest of my life and still not be holy enough… 😃

Why not?? Why not a neon sign??
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The recent popes exude holiness … shine like brilliant stars.

But, a flashing neon sign … thats like a J. Bakker or Jimmy Swaggert Televangelist.
 
BRB said:
But, a flashing neon sign … thats like a J. Bakker or Jimmy Swaggert Televangelist.
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Okay… I get it now… 😃

We don’t want to shine like Budweiser signs on Broadway?? 😃
 
distracted said:
Are prayer & meditation actually considered “works”? (“Not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of the Father”… I am sure it is God’s will for us to pray and meditate… but how much?)

People who enter convents & monestaries and live a contemplative life… don’t seem to be fulfilling (??) St. Matthew 25:31-46 (feed the hungry, etc.)… although i think most contemplatives do some kinds of charity work?? I don’t know much about how they live…

I would just like some clarity on all this…
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Hi, distracted!

I understand your concerns… but be at peace…

Pray: who, when, how often, why, salvation?

Jesus prayed for His disciples–imagine that, God praying to God for mere men!

Jesus preached, healed, performed many various miracles… ah, yes… He PRAYED!

First intercesory prayer?.. way back when Abel made his offering!

First Church’s intercesory prayer?.. Jesus Commands His disciples to pray that the Father would send more laborers!

First call to share in His passion?.. Jesus calls Peter, John and James–intersting enough Jesus scolds only Peter (Kephas) for the error all three of them made (not standing: watch and pray).

Ours is a life of prayer; hence, the Church’s Communion of the Saints.

Is it absolutely necessary for salvation (meaning: no pray no save)? No. But how would we get closer to God if you do not bend our will to His and humbly keep a life of prayer as Taught to us by Jesus?

The Contemplatives… do they remove themselves from society without caring/giving to the poor?.. not sure; though I doubt that any monastery or convent would remove itself from the need of the people in its immediate environment. Yet, even if the mandates of their congregation would dictate complete separation from the world, they are not a different “church” but an active part of the Catholic Church and, though I do not have definite proof, I am sure that the leaders of the congregations would keep the regional Bishops informed of the needs in their immediate surroundings; as Paul said, the Body is made up of various parts… some happen to be Contemplatives! 😛

…your personal discernment… here’s my way of gauging it:
  • Do you honestly want to pray all of the time (24/7)?
  • Are you seeking to gain Heaven by remaining in constant prayer?
  • Are you competing with others for God’s “ear?”
  • Are you being evasive about other engagements (work, study, personal/fam obligations)?
  • Are you humbly seeking to be with God?
Once you have determined that your objective is to be in God and with God, and that you are not evading other obligations… GO!

It is the best thing anyone can do for the world!

Here’s a secret, you can be at work, in school, during a social event, and even when you are simply taking a walk around the block… you can pray! You can pray, always! When you face anything and everything and your tounge is controlled so that which comes out of your mouth would be a prayer… you’ve gained your goal! The shortest prayer?.. Jesus! (as in Thomas’ exortation: “My Lord and my God!”)

Maran atha!

Angel
 
We are told to “pray w/o ceasing” … chap/verse ??

1 Thes 5:17 for one

I am sure it is God’s will for us to pray and meditate…

Mt 6:9-13 Jesus teaches us how we are to pray and this prayer teaches us what one must do, vss. 14f.

May God Bless, Static ( 1 Tim 1 :15 )
 
jcrichton said:
Is it absolutely necessary for salvation (meaning: no pray no save)? No.
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Are you sure about this ?

Any Sacred Scriptural support ? Any Church traditions to fall back on ?

Can one be Baptized, be Spirit Filled, and remain strong in the Lord to the end … w/o an active prayer life ?
 
jcrichton said:
Hi, distracted!

Is it absolutely necessary for salvation (meaning: no pray no save)? No. But how would we get closer to God if you do not bend our will to His and humbly keep a life of prayer as Taught to us by Jesus? Actually some saint (can’t recall who) said that the one who prays is saved, the one who does not is damned… I think he/she meant that if the person NEVER prayed… 🙂
…your personal discernment… here’s my way of gauging it:
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I knew about the power of that simple prayer but never remember to do it!!! Or almost never…

thanks and God bless… 🙂
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BRB said:
Are you sure about this ?

Any Sacred Scriptural support ? Any Church traditions to fall back on ?

Can one be Baptized, be Spirit Filled, and remain strong in the Lord to the end … w/o an active prayer life ?
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I have read the Holy Bible several times… though I know that I do not retain all of the Sacred Writings in memory, I cannot recall a single passage that states that we must pray in order to be Saved.

As for Church Traditions… though I am ignorant of most writings, I cannot recall a single time when a Priest have stated that we must pray in order to be Saved.

Yet, please understand, I am not suggesting that we should not pray; if you read the totality of my post you can verify that I am suggesting that Catholics must live a life of prayer because Jesus Christ Himself instructed us through a personal life of prayer and through the direct command that we pray!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
BRB said:
Are you sure about this ?

Any Sacred Scriptural support ? Any Church traditions to fall back on ?

Can one be Baptized, be Spirit Filled, and remain strong in the Lord to the end … w/o an active prayer life ?
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No - even Jesus Himself is shown as praying constantly and for lengthy periods (overnight, getting up early in the morning, etc etc). Purely and simply we are saved based on our conformity to His example, so prayer, and plenty of it, would seem to be an absolute necessity for us if it was so even for Him.

Then think about what prayer actually is - it is placing ourselves in God’s presence and communicating with Him. We don’t do this with our works or any other means than prayer. And it is exactly what we have to look forward to in heaven - being in God’s presence and communicating with Him. Why on earth do you think He would permit us to do these things in the afterlife if we couldn’t be bothered doing them in this one? 🤷

Besides which, last time I checked Paul was scripture - if he tells us we must pray without ceasing then I for one believe Him.
 
distracted said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrichton
Hi, distracted!

Is it absolutely necessary for salvation (meaning: no pray no save)? No. But how would we get closer to God if you do not bend our will to His and humbly keep a life of prayer as Taught to us by Jesus?

Actually some saint (can’t recall who) said that the one who prays is saved, the one who does not is damned… I think he/she meant that if the person NEVER prayed…
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This is much like the problem with “works…” the Catholic Church understands that it is by Grace that we are Saved… but she also understands that Salvation requires certain physical/visible changes and that while in the path we must not just claim to be of the Light but walk in the Light. Works are revealed by our state of Grace (St. Paul said it like this–paraphrased: “No one who is in the Holy Spirit can curse Jesus; no one can claim Jesus as Lord but in the Holy Spirit.”) or as St. James has it “show me your empty faith; and I’ll show you through my works my Faith” (again, paraphrased). Our life of prayer is part of those “works;” if we lack in humility and reject Christ’s invitation and command to pray, are we truly Christians?

The Saint that you refer to may have intimated that if we are Saved/in Jesus, we must maintain an open line of communication with God (Pray!). Think of it this way, how can a fan demonstrate favoritism for anything without supporting the cause? If I say I belong to Christ yet do not pray my actions speak volumes about my lack of Faith and understanding.
Quote:
  • Are you being evasive about other engagements (work, study, personal/fam obligations)?
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YES!!! guilty as charged…
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This is easily solved: create a system of prayer/devotion that would include the person/s or thing/s you would be neglecting:
  • At work: get permission to keep a “daily prayer” calander on your desk (the prayer of the day would help remind you of other prayers that you know or remind you of “Jesus”); if you keep any particular devotions you can grab a post-it pack and write down the title of the name of the object of the devotion; keep the pack in your desk and remove one per day or as necessary, if you are having a particularly “bad” or “good” day…
  • In the car/train/bus or while walking (if you can afford it) use a copy of the living Bible (on tape/cd) or do some home-recording of your favorite Biblical passages, devotionals or prayers; listen at a moderate volume level and enjoy your travels…
  • At home/with relatives or friends ask for help with various prayer projects (for world peace; our service men and women; to eradicate abortion; for the Pope and our other religious leaders; for the healing of the Church; to unleash the Fire of the Holy Spirit in the Church–both for the correction of errors as for the Unity to which Christ calls us…); always start small; always take in consideration the spiritual development and personal commitment of those whom you will be asking for assistance…
…don’t forget about the internet–you can create/join a prayer group/s as a secondary source for your life of prayer.

God Bless you and may the Holy Spirit aide you in you quest for that wonderful life of prayer!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
jcrichton said:
as St. James has it “show me your empty faith; and I’ll show you through my works my Faith” (again, paraphrased). Our life of prayer is part of those “works;” if we lack in humility and reject Christ’s invitation and command to pray, are we truly Christians?
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Not always the case.

Indeed, Christ tells us that in the judgement many will plead their case before Him saying “did we not cast out demons in your name, etc”

and Christ answers … “depart from Me for I never knew you”.

Clearly good works done w/o blessing/H.S. direction of Christ in our lives is worthless. It is only by daily prayer/meditation that we can be in God’s will … and be worthy of approval [fit for kingdom].
 
BRB said:
Not always the case.

Indeed, Christ tells us that in the judgement many will plead their case before Him saying “did we not cast out demons in your name, etc”

and Christ answers … “depart from Me for I never knew you”.

Clearly good works done w/o blessing/H.S. direction of Christ in our lives is worthless. It is only by daily prayer/meditation that we can be in God’s will … and be worthy of approval [fit for kingdom].
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The key word in the saying above is “knew”. Do you know God? Does He know you? Or are you a stranger to Him? Have you refused to open when He came to the door of your heart to knock and ask for entry? Or did you open and let Him in? Prayer is how we come to know Him.
 
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