Tis_Bearself
Patron
Because of the egos and misunderstandings of men, who prefer to argue and bicker rather than going out and loving God and their neighbor.
Do you doubt the NDE of people who have died and went to heaven?
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meltzerboy2
Guest
This is no doubt true. I was referring more to the details of Jesus’ message rather than its general moral principles. G-d is in the details (sometimes literally).
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Kei
Guest
The thing is there’s no clear cut definition of death scientifically. There’s heart death when the heart stops beating and brain death when the brainwaves stop. People have come back from both.
Also, people have trouble with authority. Jesus left us a Church that helps us make sure we aren’t mistaking anything, and people still go off the walls with their own interpretations. It’s crazy!
Also, people have trouble with authority. Jesus left us a Church that helps us make sure we aren’t mistaking anything, and people still go off the walls with their own interpretations. It’s crazy!
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Jesus, at least as written in the Gospels, doesn’t seem to have been big on detail.
Maybe He wanted us to arrive at that ourselves, by getting to know Him better or by figuring out how to get past our many (often petty) differences.
I think there’s a tendency in long-established religions for the details to take on a life of their own which sometimes overshadows basic humanity, as shown in the Gospels where Jesus would cure some guy who’d been sick for years and the Pharisees’ reaction would be “you shouldn’t be curing people on the Sabbath”.
Maybe He wanted us to arrive at that ourselves, by getting to know Him better or by figuring out how to get past our many (often petty) differences.
I think there’s a tendency in long-established religions for the details to take on a life of their own which sometimes overshadows basic humanity, as shown in the Gospels where Jesus would cure some guy who’d been sick for years and the Pharisees’ reaction would be “you shouldn’t be curing people on the Sabbath”.
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meltzerboy2
Guest
Some Pharisees’ reactions, not all. Jesus supposedly had admiration for the Pharisees who were keeping the law of Sabbath rest in the right way. Work on the Sabbath is permissible, even required, in certain circumstances, chiefly in instances of protecting the life and health of human beings. Hillel the Elder, of the Pharasaic school, claimed in the generation before Jesus that there are only two main precepts of the entire Law, namely, to love G-d and to love one’s neighbor. He added that all the rest was detail. Some knowledge and understanding of the details, however, are important in an effort to know how to practice the main precepts. I’m almost sure Catholic teaching would agree with this.
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misstherese
Guest
Not usually. St. Faustina once had a vision of being before God in a personal judgement. He said she was guilty of one day in Purgatory. If God says that about a saint, I have a feeling most will go to Purgatory before laying their eyes on Heaven.
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thistle
Guest
NDE’s are NOT real.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
It’s what you believe, but not proof.
Jim
Jim
Tis_Bearself
Patron
St. Therese of Lisieux would say that we go to Purgatory because we don’t have enough trust and confidence in God’s mercy. It doesn’t really have to do with our saintliness on earth.
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Jump4Joy
Guest
Why do you think they are false?
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
I guess I read the original question as “are NDE a proof of the afterlife”
And my answer is “no because they didn’t actually stay dead”
I do believe in an afterlife, like the Catholic Church teaches, but NDE neither proves nor disproves it to me.
I really think NDE is a biological phenomenon brought on by decreasing oxygen to the brain.
When the book “Life After Life” was written, NDE was unknown to the public, and NDE reporters all thought they were the only ones who had experienced it. Their experiences were shockingly similar. The testimonies also tended to be pretty short.
As time went on, it seems like NDE reports became more lengthy and elaborated . I really don’t know why, but I don’t rule out the possibility of embellishment.
Of course I could be 100% wrong
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Visions are a different phenomenon, and I do believe that Our Lord can meet us where we are and work with us where we are to guide us to Truth.
Whatever an NDE actually is, it is a very dramatic and moving experience to the individual, and if it has a positive effect on their life, that’s wonderful. Watching a beautiful sunset is an explainable phenomenon, but it’s still lovely and calming and soothing to the soul.
And my answer is “no because they didn’t actually stay dead”
I do believe in an afterlife, like the Catholic Church teaches, but NDE neither proves nor disproves it to me.
I really think NDE is a biological phenomenon brought on by decreasing oxygen to the brain.
When the book “Life After Life” was written, NDE was unknown to the public, and NDE reporters all thought they were the only ones who had experienced it. Their experiences were shockingly similar. The testimonies also tended to be pretty short.
As time went on, it seems like NDE reports became more lengthy and elaborated . I really don’t know why, but I don’t rule out the possibility of embellishment.
Of course I could be 100% wrong
!Visions are a different phenomenon, and I do believe that Our Lord can meet us where we are and work with us where we are to guide us to Truth.
Whatever an NDE actually is, it is a very dramatic and moving experience to the individual, and if it has a positive effect on their life, that’s wonderful. Watching a beautiful sunset is an explainable phenomenon, but it’s still lovely and calming and soothing to the soul.
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oldgraymare2
Guest
Respectfully, I have answered you already in my last post.
In the grand scheme of things, I’m only expressing my own personal opinion in this matter, and I don’t really care to discuss it any further here.
God bless you!
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thistle
Guest
The onus of proof is on the people claiming to have experienced an NDE, and not on those who don’t. Just because a person makes such a claim does not make it true!
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Hope1960
Guest
How do you KNOW they’re not real?
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Hope1960
Guest
I watched Fr. Spitzer but he didn’t address these people who have NDEs and see Muhommad though he did briefly say to not believe in experiences that conflict with Christianity or something like that. Did anyone else catch that?
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Pat_Albertson
Guest
That was Mtatum58’s statement, not mine. I was just embedding the video in a better way than Mtatum58 did.
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AlNg
Guest
I agree. I think that they were still alive when they had these experiences. Dreams can seem to be real events.
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Autumn-Smoke
Guest
I have a very interesting book by a Dr. who has done much research into NDE. It was he who coined the phrase “Near Death Experience.”
His latest research is in Shared Death Experiences. A shared death experience is when someone who is with a person when they die, actually shares in the experience with them. People have seen the deceased’s Life Review, have seen another dimension open and have seen their loved ones being taken away, some have seen the tunnels in which the deceased travels, and some have actually traveled part way with them in the tunnel and have seen ‘the other side.’
The author interviewed many people and says this is more common than realized. Then the author, as he was researching, actually experienced this for himself when he was at his mother’s bedside when she died.
The author calls into question the theory which says that NDE’s are purely the result of physical phenomenon, such as the brain being deprived of oxygen, because these witnesses report the same things that are reported in NDE’s. The book is full of the personal experiences of many people. It’s an interesting read.
His latest research is in Shared Death Experiences. A shared death experience is when someone who is with a person when they die, actually shares in the experience with them. People have seen the deceased’s Life Review, have seen another dimension open and have seen their loved ones being taken away, some have seen the tunnels in which the deceased travels, and some have actually traveled part way with them in the tunnel and have seen ‘the other side.’
The author interviewed many people and says this is more common than realized. Then the author, as he was researching, actually experienced this for himself when he was at his mother’s bedside when she died.
The author calls into question the theory which says that NDE’s are purely the result of physical phenomenon, such as the brain being deprived of oxygen, because these witnesses report the same things that are reported in NDE’s. The book is full of the personal experiences of many people. It’s an interesting read.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Atheists staunchly reject NDE’s experiences and come up with all sorts of ideas tring to debunk it.
So, Christians who reject NDE’s are the same side as atheists it seems.
I’m not saying you have to accept NDE’s, but don’t reject what you really don’t know.
Jim
So, Christians who reject NDE’s are the same side as atheists it seems.
I’m not saying you have to accept NDE’s, but don’t reject what you really don’t know.
Jim
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lilypadrees
Guest
I don’t doubt that there are people who’ve had NDEs (aka Out of Body Experiences). But I don’t read books by people who’ve had them. And I don’t believe the woman who wrote the book you mentioned was in Heaven.
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