Do you ever disobey your spiritual director/father?

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Aulef

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I’ll be honest… I do (rarely, though).

I have two spiritual fathers. Both serve at the same chapel. And almost everything I do I ask for their blessing and allowance beforehand.

And you? Do you disobey them?

We could discuss whether it is sinful to disrespect them, too.
 
Aulef said:
And almost everything I do I ask for their blessing and allowance beforehand.
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Do you mind if I ask you where you’re from? I’ve heard of this being done in Italy and I think Vietnam. But in the U.S. (at least where I am) having an official spiritual father in this sense is uncommon.

A spiritual director is different. Obeying my spiritual director just means incorporating new kinds of prayers in my life and doing spiritual readings, and being prepared to discuss next time I see him. He’ll help me try to discern God’s Will for my life, but he shies away from anything like making my decisions for me.
 
Talitha712 said:
But in the U.S. (at least where I am) having an official spiritual father in this sense is uncommon.
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Yeah, my first thought was “what the heck is a Spiritual Father?”

My second thought was, "and since when are we bound to obey any human unless either we are a minor being guided by a loving and good parent, or alternatively we are a priest or religious and must obey our superior? "
 
It must be a cultural thing. My mother had a spiritual father, an Italian priest that she went to for guidance and prayers. But she never made any promise of obedience to him. I think she would’ve been alarmed if he asked her for that.
 
Today, for instance, I asked one of the priests that I wanted to study more about the Holy Trinity an he said I should wait because it is a complicated subject. And if I do it incorrectly, I can fall in some heresy just like many people do ( and did in the past).

I honestly think it won’t happen so I might study it anyway.
 
I live in Brazil. I am part of a traditional Roman Catholic group, which is blessed and authorized by Pope Benedict XVI. (It isn’t SSPX)

Anyway, it is common here for Catholics to at least ask for father’s opinion about many subjects. This group I am part of goes beyond…
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Yeah, my first thought was “what the heck is a Spiritual Father?”

My second thought was, "and since when are we bound to obey any human unless either we are a minor being guided by a loving and good parent, or alternatively we are a priest or religious and must obey our superior? "
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Having a spiritual father is more common in the East.

As far as obedience goes, we are called to obey those who have authority over us, in the areas in which they have jurisdiction. We ought to be obedient to our pastors, our bishops, police officers, judges, even our bosses, when appropriate. We Americans seem to have an especially difficult time with the word. 🙂
 
They don’t expressly ask me for full obedience, but I do regard a command that comes from a member of the Church…even when I don’t understand at first.

So, when I disobey (which is rare), I get into a great internal dilemma, which usually is settled when I tell them what and how I did. They don’t condemn me but they do say I am playing with dangerous ways which the Church has always been warning about, such as studying without guidance

I just want to know if anyone else is in a similar situation.
 
Sounds like brainwashing to me - in which case “disobedience” could be healthy and the first stirrings of a maturing conscience and first steps at interdependence - as opposed to blind dependence…

May I ask how old you are?
 
I used to have a modernist mindset before my convertion. That is, to be independent, to be free, to think that my opinion is more important, that I alone can resist the devil and his deceptions etc.

Now I understand this mindset is wrong (or, at least, dangerous). Instead, I should submit to objective reality and to the truths guarded by the Holy Church. So, when the Church tells me not to do this or that, I should obey…

Well, I can’t be the only one in this situation, right? Maybe I should ask the members at the traditional catholic section
 
Who infallibly told you God was calling you to blindly follow fallible men?
Regardless of their age, education, intelligence or wisdom … all men are fallible.
That is why God gave you a conscience.
Yes, conscience needs to be informed by people we trust, but its decisions are not the same as its external guidance/advice. You seem to have confused these things as being the same…and so got brainwashed.

“Call no man on earth your father…” and all that … seems to contradict the way you converted.
Virtue is about balance not extremes. It seems you have just switched from one extreme to another. I have come across well intentioned young people like you before being manipulated by older persons who are addicted to their “wisdom” and “authority”.

Balance is much harder.
 
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Once, on retreat, my director told me to do something spontaneous. I left the retreat center at the monastery and went to the Maker’s Mark Distillery for additional “spiritual” direction. My priest nearly fell off his chair laughing when I told him. He was mad I didn’t take him.
 
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I don’t have a spiritual director but I wouldn’t disobey him since he would know better than me concerning the spiritual life. Of course, I wouldn’t be gullible about these things so if something was against Church teachings or something then I wouldn’t do it.
 
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babochka said:
As far as obedience goes, we are called to obey those who have authority over us, in the areas in which they have jurisdiction. We ought to be obedient to our pastors, our bishops, police officers, judges, even our bosses, when appropriate. We Americans seem to have an especially difficult time with the word. 🙂
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Obeying the laws and rules of our church, our workplaces, and our society in general is not the same as being “obedient” to a person. The priest, bishop, police officer, judge, and boss are applying the rules that have been developed for the good of all. They are not asking for obedience to themself as a person. There is a huge difference. When a police officer or judge or boss starts asking you to obey them as a person is usually where abuse begins; if it was the case that we had to do whatever a policeman or a boss said, then that person could order us to commit crimes or do something in service of them (such as have sexual relations with them) and we would have to do it because they are the authority and we are supposed to obey.

And it is not a matter of US people (“American” is not a good term as there are people from many countries under that umbrella) having a “difficult time with the word”. We rejected monarchy for good reasons, namely that when one person or a small group are exerting authority over those who do not have a voice, it is often unfair. And it is important that the concept stays rejected.
 
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Aulef said:
They don’t expressly ask me for full obedience, but I do regard a command that comes from a member of the Church…even when I don’t understand at first.
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This doesn’t sound so different from my spiritual director, though I’d never say he “commands” me to do anything. He’ll give me “homework” so to speak - right now, he has me reading St. Teresa of Avila. The understanding is that he is taking time out of his busy life (he’s a parish priest) to help me, so it would be horribly unfair to him and detrimental to my spiritual growth if I disobey. I am particularly obedient to priests, but if he ever asked me to do something that I didn’t like or agree with, I would tell him and explain why. But that hasn’t happened.
Aulef said:
They don’t condemn me but they do say I am playing with dangerous ways which the Church has always been warning about, such as studying without guidance
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There is some danger to study without guidance. I’m going to assume for a second that your spiritual fathers are like my spiritual director and simply want to help. In that case, why not study under their guidance? I know my spiritual director makes St. Teresa of Avila a lot easier than she would’ve been on my own.
Aulef said:
I just want to know if anyone else is in a similar situation.
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Hasn’t happened - my spiritual director keeps me busy. The only time I disobeyed him was when I failed to do something that he asked and came unprepared for our next meeting. He didn’t scold me or say anything to suggest that he was annoyed, but I never want to make him disappointed in me again.
Aulef said:
I live in Brazil. I am part of a traditional Roman Catholic group, which is blessed and authorized by Pope Benedict XVI. (It isn’t SSPX)
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Thank you for telling me 🙂
Aulef said:
Anyway, it is common here for Catholics to at least ask for father’s opinion about many subjects. This group I am part of goes beyond…
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This is exactly what I was taught about spiritual fathers! I knew of one woman who asked her spiritual father for help choosing a husband from among her suitors. She went with his choice. If you don’t mind me asking another question, what do you mean by “beyond”?
 
Asking for blessings and permission is beyond asking for opinion, right?
 
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