Do you ever disobey your spiritual director/father?

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Sure, but I see nothing at all wrong with asking for a blessing to do something. That would just tell you whether or not your spiritual father approves of what you want to do.

Normally I’d shy away from asking permission. But as long as they don’t ask you to go against Church teaching, and as you said, are a group approved by the Church, I don’t really have an issue with this either. It’s mainly a cultural difference. Just take care to remember the difference between “father” and “master” 🙂
 
Lovely and insightful answers! Thank you very much for taking your time to respond
 
No problem at all! As I mentioned, my mother had a spiritual father in Italy so I found this thread interesting.

May the dear Lord bless and keep you always!
 
Thanks for the example. You asked for advice and he gave some but you are under no obligation to follow it.
 
Obeying the laws and rules of our church, our workplaces, and our society in general is not the same as being “obedient” to a person. The priest, bishop, police officer, judge, and boss are applying the rules that have been developed for the good of all. They are not asking for obedience to themself as a person. There is a huge difference. When a police officer or judge or boss starts asking you to obey them as a person is usually where abuse begins; if it was the case that we had to do whatever a policeman or a boss said, then that person could order us to commit crimes or do something in service of them (such as have sexual relations with them) and we would have to do it because they are the authority and we are supposed to obey.

And it is not a matter of US people (“American” is not a good term as there are people from many countries under that umbrella) having a “difficult time with the word”. We rejected monarchy for good reasons, namely that when one person or a small group are exerting authority over those who do not have a voice, it is often unfair. And it is important that the concept stays rejected.
I think you are misunderstanding the kind of obedience that I’m talking about. We are never called to obey if it is contrary to the law of God, in any circumstances. We should obey those people in the areas in which they have legitimate authority over us.

Practicing the virtue of voluntary obedience to one’s spiritual director, spiritual father or confessor is a widely accepted and long-established method of growing in holiness, practiced by many Christians in all states of life.

Here is part of what St. Francis de Sales has to say on obedience:
Catholic Treasury | Introduction to a Devout Life | St Francis de Sales
There are two kinds of obedience, one necessary, the other voluntary. The first includes a humble obedience to your ecclesiastical superiors, whether Pope, Bishop, Curate, or those commissioned by them. You are likewise bound to obey your civil superiors, king and magistrates; as also your domestic superiors, father, mother, master or mistress. Such obedience is called necessary, because no one can free himself from the duty of obeying these superiors, God having appointed them severally to bear rule over us.
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Therefore do you obey their commands as of right, but if you would be perfect, follow their counsels, and even their wishes as far as charity and prudence will allow: obey as to things acceptable; as when they bid you eat, or take recreation, for although there may be no great virtue in obedience in such a case, there is great harm in disobedience. Obey in things indifferent, as concerning questions of dress, coming and going, singing or keeping silence, for herein is a very laudable obedience. Obey in things hard, disagreeable and inconvenient, and therein lies a very perfect obedience. Moreover, obey quietly, without answering again, promptly, without delay, cheerfully, without reluctance; and, above all, render a loving obedience for His Sake Who became obedient even to the death of the Cross for our sake; Who, as Saint Bernard says, chose rather to resign His Life than His Obedience.

If you would acquire a ready obedience to superiors, accustom yourself to yield to your equals, giving way to their opinions where nothing wrong is involved, without arguing or peevishness; and adapt yourself easily to the wishes of your inferiors as far as you reasonably can, and forbear the exercise of stern authority so long as they do well.

It is a mistake for those who find it hard to pay a willing obedience to their natural superiors to suppose that if they were professed religious they would find it easy to obey.

Voluntary obedience is such as we undertake by our own choice, and which is not imposed by others. Persons do not choose their own King or Bishop, or parents–often not even their husband; but most people choose their confessor or director. And whether a person takes a vow of obedience to him (as Saint Theresa, beyond her formal vow to the Superior of her Order, bound herself by a simple vow to obey Father Gratian), or without any vow they resolve to obey their chosen spiritual guide, all such obedience is voluntary, because it depends upon our own will.

Obedience to lawful superiors is regulated by their official claims. Thus, in all public and legal matters, we are bound to obey our King; in ecclesiastical matters, our Bishop; in domestic matters, our father, master or husband; and in personal matters which concern the soul, our confessor or spiritual guide.

Seek to be directed in your religious exercises by your spiritual father, because thereby they will have double grace and virtue;–that which is inherent in that they are devout, and that which comes by reason of the spirit of obedience in which they are performed.

Blessed indeed are the obedient, for God will never permit them to go astray.
 
I am sorry but I do not believe in “obedience” to a person other than a loving parent when you are a minor, or someone such as a religious superior to whom you have taken a voluntary vow to obey.

I am fine with obeying the teachings of the Church, but as I said, this is not obedience to a person. If I wanted to practice obedience to a person I would join a religious order. I do not, and I did not, and any “Spiritual director” who expected me to “obey” them I would run away from as being controlling, abusive, and toxic.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this.
 
I am sorry but I do not believe in “obedience” to a person other than a loving parent when you are a minor, or someone such as a religious superior to whom you have taken a voluntary vow to obey.

I am fine with obeying the teachings of the Church, but as I said, this is not obedience to a person. If I wanted to practice obedience to a person I would join a religious order. I do not, and I did not, and any “Spiritual director” who expected me to “obey” them I would run away from as being controlling, abusive, and toxic.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this.
@Tis_Bearself, it is fine if we disagree, but I really think you misunderstand the nature of voluntary obedience when it comes to a spiritual father or confessor.

Again, from St. Francis DeSales:
Voluntary obedience is such as we undertake by our own choice, and which is not imposed by others. Persons do not choose their own King or Bishop, or parents–often not even their husband; but most people choose their confessor or director. And whether a person takes a vow of obedience to him (as Saint Theresa, beyond her formal vow to the Superior of her Order, bound herself by a simple vow to obey Father Gratian), or without any vow they resolve to obey their chosen spiritual guide, all such obedience is voluntary, because it depends upon our own will.
I completely agree with you that such a person who expected obedience would be dangerous.

But I have chosen my confessor/spiritual father because I trust him. He is leading me to holiness, but I have to follow, by cooperating with his advice (in other words, giving my obedience to his spiritual direction). Sometimes I do this even if I’m not sure he’s on the right track. He might recommend a particular prayer rule or course of action to try with something that is vexing me, or a particular book to read. Sometimes I’m skeptical that he’s on the right track, but by trusting him and trying it anyway, I am giving him obedience. If he suggests more frequent confession and I come every week instead of every two weeks, that is obedience.

I know this is a loaded word in English with all sorts of negative connotations. Maybe it is easier to avoid using the word, and just use one of its definitiosn: to listen.
 
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I don’t care if you think I “misunderstand” it. I find it an unnecessary and frankly, toxic concept.
Spiritual direction to me does not involve the imposition of orders or commands on another who has not vowed or otherwise promised to be in that position. I do not understand why you are so insistent in pushing this on me when I have expressed strongly that I do not find it useful and frankly find it disturbing and also find it disturbing that you imparted your concept to all of the USA.
I am now leaving this thread. Have a nice day.
 
Agreed.
This is the stuff of the painfully scrupulous in nature, cults, communes, Wakos and Jonestowns.

To make an ideal out of such obedience, especially when one is an older teenager and meant to be transitioning from acceptable childhood dependency to adult interdependence (usually via a period of anti-authority experimentation and boundary testing), is a recipe for personal disaster in the 21C I suggest.
 
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I see some people are not whiling to submit themselves to the will of church leaders. The weird part is that these same people would happily submit to some secular judge.
 
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Why do you think that is wierd? A secular judge is recognized by civil law and can throw you in jail.
 
So, you are afraid of jail but not afraid of disobeying a priest who is simply trying to save a soul from mortal sin?
 
Who told you to submit to “Church Leaders”.
Why would you think that studying the Trinity or not is a question of mortal sin?
 
Jesus Christ told us to submit to His Church. He is the king and the Church is his body, remember?

And studying the Trinity in itself is not a mortal sin. The way I wanted to study this subject, on the other hand, could lead me to heresy, according to my spiritual father, because it would be without proper guidance.

Anyway, I talked to him again and he told me to be patient and to keep the faith and this desire.
 
Spiritual Father is the Eastern term for what the Latin Church often calls a spiritual director. I actually think it’s a much more elegant term.
 
Unless you’ve made a vow, you are not bound under pain of sin to obey. However, it is probably unwise to do so.

Obviously, the writings of spiritual writers such as St. Francis DeSales on the matter are more credible than the comments of internet critics.
 
Aulef you came here for advice.
My personal view is that such a degree of intellectual subservience and permission seeking in trivial matters is not normal for someone over the age of 18.
Therefore disobeying (ie choosing to do something else on mature reflection) in trivial matters is not only permissible but likely healthy.
 
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