Do you ever feel sorry for Judas Iscariot?

  • Thread starter Thread starter redrosetea
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Do you realy think Judas had a choice in what happened? The guy is sitting there at the last supper when Jesus hands him the morsel and immediately the devil enters Judas…and the rest is history.
Judas was a free agent (as we are) who chose freely to betray His Lord. He can’t be excused by “the devil made me do it”. Neither can the Lord Himself be accused of Judas’ action. :eek:
I think Judas is the second most instrumental human being in our salvation. Think about it, it was fore told in scripture and that’s the way it played out
.

God revealing that evil will happen doesn’t mean that the evil when it happens is in itself good, does it? What we can say, though, is that evil never ultimately wins the day. The second most instrumental being in our salvation was/is Our Blessed Mother.
Can we say “St. Judas Iscariot”?
No.
 
I hope all had a Happy Thanksgiving!

Now back to Judas. John 13 would seem to explain it fairly well: the devil induced Judas and then “Satan entered him”. Unless I am missing something, Judas had no say in the matter. Satan first induced him, apparently prior to the gathering for the Last Supper and then after Judas took the "morsel " from Jesus, Satan entered him. Hardly seems like free will to me.

And if Judas made a free will choice and chose not to betray Jesus then we would be here discussing one of the other twelve because scripture had to be fullfilled.
 
OHIOWA:

I agree with you 100% and then some. We should start a letter writing campaign or a petition drive to have the Pope make Judas a Saint. People on this site don’t seem to know what they are talking about 'cause the devil has clouded their mind. Our home is in Heaven. What would you do if you got to Heaven and Hitler is your next door neighbor? Would you say, “Was Judas really that bad to the point whre they let Hitler in instead of him?”
 
I hope all had a Happy Thanksgiving!

Now back to Judas. John 13 would seem to explain it fairly well: the devil induced Judas and then “Satan entered him”. Unless I am missing something, Judas had no say in the matter. Satan first induced him, apparently prior to the gathering for the Last Supper and then after Judas took the "morsel " from Jesus, Satan entered him. Hardly seems like free will to me.

And if Judas made a free will choice and chose not to betray Jesus then we would be here discussing one of the other twelve because scripture had to be fullfilled.
Prophecies were able to be made in Scripture, generations before the events, because God knew what the “free will” actions of all persons were going to be, before they were created, and He knew all of this even before He created the world. God desires all men to be saved, yet not all men are saved. Those who are not saved used their free wills to do evil and they never repented before death. Their evil “free will” choices frustrated God’s “desire that they be saved.” This freedom (free will) to choose evil or good can never be taken away from us. There are no exceptions.

Ephesians 1:4 “just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,”

1 Timothy 2:3-4 “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires **all **men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”

Before God created us, He knew everything about us because He is omniscient (He knows all things: past, present, and future). “Foreknowledge” (knowing that Judas will betray Jesus (in the future) is not the same as “causing” Judas to betray Jesus. This foreknowledge has absolutely nothing to do with Judas’ actual act of betrayal.

John 13:25-27 "Then, leaning back on Jesus’ breast, he said to Him, “Lord, who is it?”
26 Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.”

Jesus knew by foreknowledge that Judas would betray Him and that is the only reason that He gave the bread to Judas.

James 1:13 “Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.”

Zechariah 8:17 “Let none of you think evil in your heart against your neighbor; And do not love a false oath. For all these are things that I hate,’ Says the LORD.”

Satan entered Judas because Judas’ heart had evil intent, and having evil intent is like sending an “invitation” for Satan to join you in your evil. We can be tempted by our own evil selfish desires and we can also be tempted by Satan, or by both at the same time.

Proverbs 23:7 “For as he thinks in his heart, so is he.”

Acts 5:3 “But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?”

God is Perfect Good and God is Love (1 John 4:8) and He cannot cause any person to sin because sin is evil. God cannot do evil. Evil is against His nature.
 
That’s not true about Satan, he bothers a lot of good people and some don’t have iron will. If you chose to believe stories about Padro Pio, the devil bothered him and Mother Theresa had an “exoricism” because she was bothered by demons and wasn’t sleeping well. They were much more able to be strong, Judas was confused and deluded by his own thinking. If he was evil, the devil wouldn’t have left him and then he felt the weight of what he did. And the devil would have wanted to pick one of them.
I know that is why the vatican has a panel of men looking into it and why John Paul ll said we can never say he is in hell.

I don’t understand why people argue that they are so sure of that…it’s almost like they want it, the enjoy it…“he’s there, I’m not” kind of thing. If he isn’t, I would feel a bit foolish later…
 
Do you realy think Judas had a choice in what happened? The guy is sitting there at the last supper when Jesus hands him the morsel and immediately the devil enters Judas…and the rest is history.

I think Judas is the second most instrumental human being in our salvation. Think about it, it was fore told in scripture and that’s the way it played out.

Can we say “St. Judas Iscariot”?

JButcher
Calling Judas a saint is like calling me a saint. I dunno, I might be a little closer. I think he had a choice. He chose to sin very badly. I don’t know that he’s automatically in Hell though, 'cause he may not have been fully aware of the consequences of his actions. At minimum he broke the Eighth Commandment: Thou shall not bear false witness. He helped Jesus get executed even though He was innocent. I’m right, right? Or is it a different commandment Judas broke? If anything, what Jesus said at the Last Supper could be interpreted as a warning. Please Jesus, tell ME when I’m going to sin, right? If I were a human being worth anything, I’d never sin again if He did this.

Tracy
 
That’s not true about Satan…Judas was confused and deluded by his own thinking. If he was evil, the devil wouldn’t have left him and then he felt the weight of what he did. And the devil would have wanted to pick one of them.
I agree that Satan attacks good people. He does this so that he can keep them from eternal life. God allows Satan to tempt us for as long as we live, even “at the hour of our death.”

Satan wanted Judas’ soul in hell with him for eternity. So, if Judas despaired and took his own life, which are two additional sins besides the sin of betrayal, then Satan wins a soul away from Jesus for eternity.

But, If Judas was not culpable for his sins due to mental impairment, then God had mercy on him and he is either in purgatory or in heaven right now. End of story.

I feel it is important to be concerned about my own sins and my own state of grace rather than to be concerned about Judas or Hitler, etc.
 
Hello Whdevo (William),
(I do not mean to moan, but, often, when I have posed what I consider to be “legitimate” premises
-again, looking only for understanding- these have been met with anything but “charitable response”, and often with responses which are “flippantly defensive” … .).
I apologize to you if you are referring to my posts. I was not aware of doing this and if you were referring to me, I will be more careful in future. (I will be more careful anyway because “charity towards others” is one of my life-long goals.)
With most of the body of your post, I agree, but I must disagree in your assertion that “for many” and “for all” are used “interchangeably” in the Bible …
I would, again, refer to the words of Jesus Christ at the Last Supper … (there are many reasons for my believing that it is actively “dangerous” for any Roman Catholic to accept “for all men” in this context, and these are referred to throughout the Scriptures, particularly in the New Testament and Revelation …) …
Jesus Christ unequivocally says “… for many”, and, I believe, the rest of the Scriptures (particularly the words of Jesus Christ Himself), equally unequivocally, validate the premise of “for many” and not “for all”.
I’m sorry; I should have given definite Scripture verses to show what I meant. Here they are:
a. Matthew 26:28 “For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

b. 1 Timothy 2:3-7 “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. 7And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.”

Both of these passages are referring to the same thing—Christ’s redemptive sacrificial death on the Cross—and that is why I stated that both “for many” and “for all” can be used interchangeably in this case.

Since God desires all men to be saved, and Jesus died as a ransom for all men, then Jesus had to make it possible for all men to actually be saved. He, Himself, cannot prevent His own desire from being fulfilled because it would be contrary to His Divine Nature to thwart His own desire. We, however, can prevent His desire from being fulfilled by using our own free wills (which God gave us). When we participate in sinful behavior, we cut ourselves off from God’s grace. We cannot inherit eternal life if we cut ourselves off from God’s grace (unless we repent before death) Romans 11:23.

Another example of this usage is:

Mark 1:5 “Then all the land of Judea, and those from Jerusalem, went out to him and were all baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.”

I think that we can correctly assume, that not “all men,” (meaning every single man) actually were baptized. There were some hold-outs in this huge number who did not believe and were not baptized.

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

We know for certain that Jesus and Mary never ever sinned. This is why I state that sometimes “all” and “many” are used interchangeably.

To be continued:
 
I agree that Satan attacks good people. He does this so that he can keep them from eternal life. God allows Satan to tempt us for as long as we live, even “at the hour of our death.”

Satan wanted Judas’ soul in hell with him for eternity. So, if Judas despaired and took his own life, which are two additional sins besides the sin of betrayal, then Satan wins a soul away from Jesus for eternity.

But, If Judas was not culpable for his sins due to mental impairment, then God had mercy on him and he is either in purgatory or in heaven right now. End of story.

I feel it is important to be concerned about my own sins and my own state of grace rather than to be concerned about Judas or Hitler, etc.
You said you were more concerned about your sins & grace than about Judas & Hitler. If true, why did you answer this question? Its about Judas.
 
Hello Whdevo (William),
(I do not mean to moan, but, often, when I have posed what I consider to be “legitimate” premises
-again, looking only for understanding- these have been met with anything but “charitable response”, and often with responses which are “flippantly defensive” … .).
I apologize to you if you are referring to my posts. I was not aware of doing this and if you were referring to me, I will be more careful in future. (I will be more careful anyway because “charity towards others” is one of my most important life-long goals.)
With most of the body of your post, I agree, but I must disagree in your assertion that “for many” and “for all” are used “interchangeably” in the Bible …
I would, again, refer to the words of Jesus Christ at the Last Supper … (there are many reasons for my believing that it is actively “dangerous” for any Roman Catholic to accept “for all men” in this context, and these are referred to throughout the Scriptures, particularly in the New Testament and Revelation …) …
Jesus Christ unequivocally says “… for many”, and, I believe, the rest of the Scriptures (particularly the words of Jesus Christ Himself), equally unequivocally, validate the premise of “for many” and not “for all”.
I’m sorry; I should have given definite Scripture verses/passages to show what I meant. Here they are:
a. Matthew 26:28 “For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

b. 1 Timothy 2:3-7 “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. 7And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.”

Both of these passages which state “for many” and “for all” are referring to the same thing—Christ’s redemptive sacrificial blood shed on the Cross—and that is why I stated that both “for many” and “for all” can be used interchangeably in this case. Jesus died as a ransom for all men and He desires all men to be saved.

Since God desires all men to be saved, and Jesus died as a ransom for all men, then Jesus had to make it possible for all men to actually be saved. He, Himself, cannot prevent His own desire from being fulfilled because it would be contrary to His Divine Nature to thwart His own desire. So, this is why I stated that Jesus meant “for all” also besides “for many” in Matthew 26:28 because He died as a “ransom for all men.”

We, however, can prevent His “desire for all men to be saved” from being fulfilled by using our own free wills (which God gave us). When we participate in sinful behavior, we cut ourselves off from God’s grace. We cannot inherit eternal life if we cut ourselves off from God’s grace, unless we repent before death Romans 11:23.

Another example of this usage is:

Mark 1:5 “Then all the land of Judea, and those from Jerusalem, went out to him and were all baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.”

I think that we can correctly assume, that not “all (meaning every single man) men" actually were baptized. According to human nature, there were most likely some hold-outs in this huge group who did not believe and so were not baptized.

Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

We know for certain that Jesus and Mary never ever sinned. This is why I state that sometimes “all” and “many” are used interchangeably so it cannot literally mean “all” in this case unless it is referring to only those who inherited original sin (Adam’s sin) and it only applies to original sin and not to each person’s personal sins.

To be continued…
 
Continued…
But, rather than “evil”, I wonder if it is not that it is our imperfect understandings and strugglings to adhere to God’s teachings that, especially when, increasingly, society (and, often, even life itself) seem to tell us that they are “against our nature”, that provide the "temptations…… I believe that it is for man, firstly to discern, and then to diligently and earnestly work, to fulfill, the requirements of God, and that it is man’s own imperfections which he terms “temptations”.
I agree that we are tempted by our own desires (selfishness). However, Jesus also states in Luke 11:4 “And forgive us our sins, For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one.” The “evil one” is Satan and his minions. And of course, God tempts no one to do evil. James 1:13 One translation actually states “subject us not to the trial” instead of “do not lead us into temptation.”

I also agree that we each must “work out our salvation in fear and trembling” as Paul states in Philippians 2:12.

We know that God never directly tempts us according to James 1:13 but He does allow us to be tempted by our own selfish desires and he does allow us to be tempted by the devil as in Job 1:6-12. God allows it so that a greater good can be accomplished. (Job proves his steadfastness to God which will be, and is, an encouraging example to all of us who come after him because it is recorded in Scripture forever.) This example of Job recorded in Scripture is the greater good.
Jesus Christ was, I accept, “tempted” in the desert, but I note that it was with always with “physical things”, and I, therefore, see the Devil as having attempted to make the “offers” to the “man” part of “Jesus Christ” (and that, I take to be an example to man in that all the “treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal”, are not nearly comparable to everlasting life in God)
Satan “tempts” us with his “solutions” to satisfy our greatest “desires” and these desires, unless they are tempered and brought into submission by prayer, etc., pave the way for us to fall into sin. 1 Corinthians 9:27 “But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.”

For example, Jesus was hungry so He was tempted with food. A person who “loves” money will be tempted with immoral ways to obtain money, etc. Satan “tailors” his “temptations” to correspond to each person’s individual “weaknesses” so that he will have the greatest success with his temptations. Satan’s goal is to take away our inheritance in the kingdom of God.
…… To aid man in his quest for perfection, God, I believe, has given man His Word -His instructions for achieving the perfection He desires.
True, but it is more than that. God has given us His Church with both its oral teachings and its written teachings in order to instruct us and these teachings are called “Sacred Tradition:”

Matthew 16:18 “And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.”

2 Thessalonians 2:15 “Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word (oral teaching) or our epistle (written word which is called Scripture).

1 Timothy 3:15 “but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.”
Finally, I believe that I must “discern”, etc. for myself (although I also will take into account any other views …), because it is “for myself”, I believe, I shall have to answer on the Last Day.
How true! We will all account for our “works” on Judgment Day. We are judged solely on Judgment Day by our “works” because “good works” are proof of our saving faith and “bad works” or “no works” are proof of our lack of faith. Matthew 25:32-46 and 2 Corinthians 5:9-11 and 2 Thessalonians 1:8.

If I have inadvertently missed something that you wanted my thoughts on, please tell me and I will address it.

God bless.
azjanet aka SHW

I originally signed up as azjanet. However, I now have a website called StudyHisWord and I will be posting exclusively as SHW from now on.
 
You said you were more concerned about your sins & grace than about Judas & Hitler. If true, why did you answer this question? Its about Judas.
I am more concerned about “myself” since I am the only person who can account for “me” on Judgment Day. This does not mean that I can not have an opinion or Scripture passages to share with others on a given subject. But in the end, only my own sins matter as far as my salvation is concerned. Judas and Hitler have to account for their own sins on Judgment Day. Jesus will be judging each one of us on that day. He won’t be asking us for our opinions as to who He “should” save. We each find out our eternal destination right after we die. However, everyone will find out our eternal destination on Judgment Day.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top