Do you ever wonder about St Faustina?

[Timothysis]

Christ calls us all day, every day, whether we are in a state of grace or not. Those who choose to mortally sin do so of their own free will and conscience; hence, they refuse Christ’s “call.”

Perhaps this is what St. Faustina was talking about? We know that those who die in a state of unrepentant mortal sin are in danger of hell because of THEIR CHOICE to separate themselves from Jesus. Even though he calls for the lost sheep it doesn’t mean that they will answer.

 

[HollyDolly]

:flowers:

1.Saints aren’t infallible in their teachings.

2.Much of what Faustina wrote has a history of being suppressed by the Church (for good reason).

3.The Divine Mercy is approved only insofar as it does not contradict any existing dogmas of the Church. I.E., it must interpreted in an orthodox fashion.

I had read this also somewhere, about St.Faustina’s writings being suppresed by the Church.Do you know why, and what was contreversial about them?

 

[Genesis315]

It makes me wonder if Christ calls everyone 3 times to accept Him what is the point of trying to lead a good life?..Just do what you please and wait till you die and when Christ calls to you, accept Him

It doesn’t make any sense to me at all…Can someone explain this to me?

Have you ever heard of the opera Don Giovanni? At the end of his horribly sinful life, Don Giovanni is visited by the spirit of a man he murdered who invites him to the eternal banquet of heaven–and Don Giovanni refuses!

The point is that a life of obstinate resistance to grace, of thumbing your nose at God, can harden one’s hard to the point of one final act of pride: final impenitence.

This is the case even moreso when it comes to living in the sin of presumption of God’s mercy. Imagine living your whole life sinfully and planning to repent at the end. How hard would it be to repent of that plan the moment when it appears to be coming to fruition?

 

[Neil_Anthony]

It makes me wonder if Christ calls everyone 3 times to accept Him what is the point of trying to lead a good life?..Just do what you please and wait till you die and when Christ calls to you, accept Him

I don’t think St. Faustina said anything of the kind.

What kind of person, believing enough in Christ to be sure that He will call to us 3 times at our death, would want to wait until death to say yes to Christ? Does such a person believe in Christ or not? It doesn’t really make much sense.

 

[Indyann]

I don’t think St. Faustina said anything of the kind.

What kind of person, believing enough in Christ to be sure that He will call to us 3 times at our death, would want to wait until death to say yes to Christ? Does such a person believe in Christ or not? It doesn’t really make much sense.

Indeed, St. Faustina did write about Him calling a soul three times. I do not have the Diary at hand, so I cannot give you the exact page, but it is quoted in this thread.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=201480

 

[Jacafamala]

Oh, I’m very sure Christ calls, but death bed conversions are rather rare. It’s what we do during this life that predisposes us to receiving our Lord at the hour of our death.

Edited to add: I’m completely certain St. Faustina said that Christ calls three times, I too have read it in her diary.

 

[graceandglory]

I haven’t read it but I have listened to what people on EWTN have said about her…It all sounds too easy to me…She is a saint that doesn’t make any sense to me at all…who is going to turn down a sure thing?..Christ said we are to enter by the narrow gate

If you love the Lord, keeping the Commandments isn’t so hard.

Do you really need a commandment “Thou Shall Not Kill” if you truly love your wife?

No, you wouldn’t even think of breaking that commandment.

St. Faustina is pointing out how being in love with Christ makes keeping His commandments easy.

 

[graceandglory]

Christ referred to the Old Testament Commandments when He answered the disciples question about what is the most important commandment to keep.

“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37* And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39* And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.
Matthew 22:36-40

Once you have fallen in love with Christ, the rest falls into place.

 

[Matariel]

I haven’t read it but I have listened to what people on EWTN have said about her…It all sounds too easy to me…She is a saint that doesn’t make any sense to me at all…who is going to turn down a sure thing?..Christ said we are to enter by the narrow gate

I think that Jesus does call at the moment of our death, but our sins might prevent us from hearing Him.

Hope this helps.

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

I think that Jesus does call at the moment of our death, but our sins might prevent us from hearing Him.

Hope this helps.

Yes. It is absolutely possible for a soul to be so hardened by sin that it will spurn grace - as a matter of fact, I see it all the time.

 

[Eucharisted]

It makes me wonder if Christ calls everyone 3 times to accept Him what is the point of trying to lead a good life?..Just do what you please and wait till you die and when Christ calls to you, accept Him

It doesn’t make any sense to me at all…Can someone explain this to me?

The point is love. Love, love, and love.

 

[ConservativeOne]

Isn’t it sad? We think one way for most of our lives - that is, to be in the state of grace or lose our souls - then, hear these words from St. Faustina but now unsure if they were said - or are confirmed as correct?

I know I was pleasantly surprised - for any soul - thinking how could a dying soul not accept Our Lord’s invitation and three last chances for penitence and Eternal Salvation? And given three chances? It’s not what we were taught in our catechisms - but it sure does sound easy. But I don’t think I’d live just any old way because of it. I just pray that my soul calls out, ‘Yes, Yes, Yes’ to Jesus and Eternal Salvation. (And I know God is witnessing this, as I type it.)

 

[JMMK]

I think it has to do with the parable of the Canaanite woman in Matthew 15:21-28. By birth, she was out side of the covenant with God, and was rightly denied her request by Jesus. However, her faith in him led her to say “Yea, Lord: for the whelps also eat of the crumbs that fall from the table of their masters”. And because of her faith, Christ healed her daughter like she asked.

I was taught that this parable is about the possibility of grace being given from God to those who firmly believe and trust in Him, even if they are outside of the covenant and have no right to the normative means of Grace.

Not something I would bet my eternal life on, weak as I am. I’ll stick with the normative means. But it does give me some comfort in a way.

 

[StMartin_67]

Isn’t it sad? We think one way for most of our lives - that is, to be in the state of grace or lose our souls - then, hear these words from St. Faustina but now unsure if they were said - or are confirmed as correct?

I know I was pleasantly surprised - for any soul - thinking how could a dying soul not accept Our Lord’s invitation and three last chances for penitence and Eternal Salvation? And given three chances? It’s not what we were taught in our catechisms - but it sure does sound easy. But I don’t think I’d live just any old way because of it. I just pray that my soul calls out, ‘Yes, Yes, Yes’ to Jesus and Eternal Salvation. (And I know God is witnessing this, as I type it.)

Seems to contradict this:

6 And at midnight there was a cry made: Behold the bridegroom cometh, go ye forth to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise: Give us of your oil, for our lamps are gone out. 9 The wise answered, saying: Lest perhaps there be not enough for us and for you, go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 Now whilst they went to buy, the bridegroom came: and they that were ready, went in with him to the marriage, and the door was shut.

11 But at last come also the other virgins, saying: Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answering said: Amen I say to you, I know you not. 13 Watch ye therefore, because you know not the day nor the hour.

 

[Joysong]

This article #1698 from the Diary is helplful to reflect upon:

1698 l often attend upon the dying and through entreaties obtain for them trust in God’s mercy, and I implore God for an abundance of divine grace, which is always victorious.

God’s mercy “sometimes” touches the sinner at the last moment in a wondrous and mysterious way. Outwardly, it seems as if everything were lost, but it is not so. The soul, illumined by a ray of God’s powerful final grace, turns to God in the last moment with such a power of love that, in an instant, it receives from God forgiveness of sin and punishment, while outwardly it shows no sign either of repentance or of contrition, because souls [at that stage] no longer react to external things. Oh, how beyond comprehension is God’s mercy!

But-horror!-there are also souls who voluntarily and consciously reject and scorn this grace! Although a person is at the point of death, the merciful God gives the soul that interior vivid moment, so that if the soul is willing, it has the possibility of returning to God. But sometimes, the obduracy in souls is so great that consciously they choose hell; they [thus] make useless all the prayers that other souls offer to God for them and even the efforts of God Himself…

saint-faustina.com/Diary/DMIMS33.shtml

We never know whether a lifetime of prayers that one offers for a hardened sinner will be applied altogether in one moment at the hour of their death and obtain for them final repentence. I had prayed for a special person for in excess of 35 years and by all outward appearances, I had no assurance of his conversion.

One night in prayer, I was asking God whether his death on Oct. 13th had anything to do with the last Fatima vision on that date. In a moment of infused knowledge, I received this: “Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for US sinners, now and at the hour of OUR death.”

Although I have prayed the Hail Mary all my long life, I never fully grasped the great significance of these words, to realize that the universal church in praying this, asks Mary to pray for ALL sinners at the hour of death, not just ourselves. I believe she does, and this prayer has been my joy and comfort to realize the Mother of God is Mother of us all and intercedes powerfully at that moment so that the desire of her Son, that none will be lost, can be realized.

But as we read in St. Faustina’s Diary, that is not necessarily a guarantee because of the God-given free will to men, who may obstinately reject all grace at that moment.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

It makes me wonder if Christ calls everyone 3 times to accept Him what is the point of trying to lead a good life?..Just do what you please and wait till you die and when Christ calls to you, accept Him

It doesn’t make any sense to me at all…Can someone explain this to me?

The Lord can explain it to you:

Matthew Chapter 20

1 The kingdom of heaven is like to an householder, who went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. 2 And having agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.

3 And going about the third hour, he saw others standing in the market place idle. 4 And he said to them: Go you also into my vineyard, and I will give you what shall be just. 5 And they went their way.

And again he went out about the sixth

and the ninth hour, and did in like manner.

6 But about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing, and he saith to them: Why stand you here all the day idle? 7 They say to him: Because no man hath hired us. He saith to them: Go you also into my vineyard.

8 And when evening was come, the lord of the vineyard saith to his steward: Call the labourers and pay them their hire, beginning from the last even to the first. 9 When therefore they were come, that came about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. 10 But when the first also came, they thought that they should receive more: and they also received every man a penny. 11 And receiving it they murmured against the master of the house, 12 Saying: These last have worked but one hour, and thou hast made them equal to us, that have borne the burden of the day and the heats. *

*

13

• But he answering said to one of them: Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst thou not agree with me for a penny? 14 Take what is thine, and go thy way: I will also give to this last even as to thee. 15 Or, is it not lawful for me to do what I will? is thy eye evil, because I am good?

I find it rather mercenary that anyone would love and serve God for the reward which surely does come - but our God does not think nor love nor do anything else as miserly as me – He thinks the mercenary attitude is as good as any attitude whatsoever - Such a God have we:thumbsup:

.

 

[StMartin_67]

We never know whether a lifetime of prayers that one offers for a hardened sinner will be applied altogether in one moment at the hour of their death and obtain for them final repentence. I had prayed for a special person for in excess of 35 years and by all outward appearances, I had no assurance of his conversion.
One night in prayer, I was asking God whether his death on Oct. 13th had anything to do with the last Fatima vision on that date. In a moment of infused knowledge, I received this: “Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for US sinners, now and at the hour of OUR death.”

It is dangerous to assume “infused knowledge” that is contrary to all external indicators.

Although I have prayed the Hail Mary all my long life, I never fully grasped the great significance of these words, to realize that the universal church in praying this, asks Mary to pray for ALL sinners at the hour of death, not just ourselves. I believe she does, and this prayer has been my joy and comfort to realize the Mother of God is Mother of us all and intercedes powerfully at that moment so that the desire of her Son, that none will be lost, can be realized.

None will be lost?

But as we read in St. Faustina’s Diary, that is not necessarily a guarantee because of the God-given free will to men, who may obstinately reject all grace at that moment.

That free will is to be used in our lifetime for accepting our crosses and obeying the commandments and making acts of contrition and going to confession. A man usually dies with the armor he has fought his entire life with.

The danger of the general attitude which “Divine Mercy” tends to instill in many is why it was censured.

 

[Joysong]

Redrosetea:

Just do what you please and wait till you die and when Christ calls to you, accept Him.

I’m wondering how you define “do what you please.” It gives the impression that sin is more fun and rewarding, and then we are blessed with Paradise after our life of debauchery.

What is missing in this fantasy is the beauty of a life of virtue, a close friendship of love with Jesus and His Spirit, being guided into “verdant pastures” and having the joy of an undefiled conscience. Eye has not seen what God bestows on souls that love Him. Illegitimate physical joys pursued in sin cannot even be imagined as comparing with the spiritual joys of intimate union with God. Do you think a life embracing sin is a good thing, better than this?

A person in the state of mortal sin has no effectiveness in prayer, whether for himself or others, since his spiritual condition is a hindrance to a great degree. Another serious consequence is the inability to merit by one’s works, which would obtain a greater degree of reward in heaven. One cannot merit while being outside the state of sanctifying grace.

Another consequence is that in order to claim the person from a life of sin, God may send severe trials of correction, as a loving Father always does with wayward children. The person may suffer much, and may never repent at all if he rebels under these corrections, wrongly believing God is against him.

Do you think this is worth the joyride of sin?

 

[StMartin_67]

I’m wondering how you define “do what you please.” It gives the impression that sin is more fun and rewarding

Our fallen nature (original sin) tends to think it is more rewarding. If we live by the flesh, sin is more fun and rewarding.

A person in the state of mortal sin has no effectiveness in prayer, whether for himself or others, since his spiritual condition is a hindrance to a great degree. Another serious consequence is the inability to merit by one’s works, which would obtain a greater degree of reward in heaven. One cannot merit while being outside the state of sanctifying grace.

What is his spiritual condition? Should he stop praying? Count on “Divine Mercy”?

 

[Timothysis]

The danger of the general attitude which “Divine Mercy” tends to instill in many is why it was censured.

The Divine Mercy was censured because of bad translations that muddled it’s meaning. The Divine Mercy is now anything but censured; indeed, the Sunday after Easter is Divine Mercy Sunday.

The Divine Mercy is not meant to be a “get out of jail free” card. For centuries past there have always been those who lived a wild, free and reckless life and who, on their deathbed, turned to the mercy of Christ. Are you suggesting that Christ turns a deaf ear to them?